The Moral Costs of Climate Change

20 November 2014

The topic of climate change is timely and important, but it’s also one that's difficult to talk about. We’re making such a mess of this planet—chopping down forests and burning carbon-based fossil fuels, polluting our air, soil, and water, causing polar ice caps to melt and sea levels to rise. We’re already beginning to see the devastating effects of climate change around the globe, and it’s only going to get worse—especially if we pass the 2 degrees celsius tipping point, which seems inevitable at this point. And despite the fact we've known what the consequences of our actions are for some time now, instead of slowing down, we’ve actuallyincreasedthe rate at which we burn fossil fuels!

What’s worse, the global community can’t seem to agree on a binding timeline to curb carbon emissions. Just look at what happened at the Copenhagen Climate Conference in 2009. It seems like we humans are hell-bent on making this planet uninhabitable for future generations.The entire picture just fills me with dread.

And yet I think most reasonable people would agree we have a duty to our kids, and to our kids’ kids, to pass on a planet where human life—nay, humanflourishing—is still possible. But there’s serious inertia in the system, at both the political and the personal level, which makes the change we need seem almost impossible. There’s obviously some kind of disconnect happening here. We recognize our moral responsibilities on sometheoreticallevel, but when it comes to makingactualchanges—actually living differently—few are willing to pay the price and make the necessary sacrifices.

Given the direness of the situation and our apparent inertia in the face of impending crisis, is there still hope that we can turn things around at this point? There are major costs associated with changing our way of life and adapting to the new global climate, which raises some critical moral questions: who ought to pay those costs, and how do we distribute the economic burdens in a fair and equitable way?

Somebody has to pay for the shift from a fossil fuel-based economy to something more sustainable, for re-designing infrastructures that make us less vulnerable to severe weather, and for responding to the growing number of climate catastrophes around the world. Historically speaking, it's industrialized nations who've benefited most. So it seems like we're the ones who ought to pay. But so far that hasn’t happened.

The industrialized nations most responsible for climate change are also least affected by it. We in the first world have greater wealth, which allows us to adapt more easily to increasingly severe conditions. Developing nations, who never got to reap the benefits of industrialization, are not only the most vulnerable to climate change but also the least able to pay the costs of adapting.

这就产生了一个道德上的两难。一方面,发达国家造成了所有这些损害,却获得了所有的好处,因此,我们现在要求发展中国家不要做我们已经做过的事情是不公平的。如果他们不能像我们一样发展经济,那他们又怎么能适应不断变化的气候呢?另一方面,地球根本负担不起发展中国家以我们现在的方式燃烧化石燃料。从道德上讲,这只是一团乱。

Ultimately, I think, we need to rethink our idea of development and flourishing. And not just in the third world—first world countries also have to seriously rethink their economic models that are based on the idea of constant growth, which basically means constant consumption. We’re seeing that that’s simply not a sustainable model. But it’s not clear what can replace it.

So, there’s a lot to talk about in this week’s show. Can we realistically entertain hope for the future in the face of global climate change? What kind of radical transformation is required for the survival of future generations? And what kind of responsibilities do individuals have for ensuring justice for all?


Photo byMarkus SpiskeonUnsplash

Comments(19)


Fred Griswold's picture

Fred Griswold

Monday, August 20, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

I don't see the advantage of

I don't see the advantage of treating global warming as a moral issue. Does it mean that the next time the chairman of BP goes to church, the priest can withhold communion from him? If we treat it as a criminal matter, at least we can throw those guys in prison.

Guest's picture

Guest

Monday, August 20, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

3.9 billion years ago, the

3.9 billion years ago, the first undeniable living thing, a protoprokaryote, appeared on Earth. It did all the things living things do. Among them, it ingested water and carbon dioxide and produced oxygen as a waste. That protoprokaryote did not die; it simply regenerated itself by dividing into two cells identical to the original, as did the two cells and their offspring. For the next two billion years, the prokaryotes, and their mutations, that covered the Earth. By then, they had produced so much waste (oxygen) that the original life-forms began to find themselves restricted to ever more remote and diminished regions as their oxygen-breathing mutants began to take over. Today, the original forms are limited to environments such as pond scum and garbage dumps.
The original protoprokaryote was the ancestor of all plants and animals (all of which have a common genetic language). Now it seems humans are going the same route as the prokaryotes. Our survival is put in peril by our own wastes. We may be at, or very near, the pinnacle of evolution. What follows us may be a devolution to a time when the prokayotes, or some mutations, rule the Earth. People cannot adapt to anywhere near the environmental conditions that bacteria can. Sadly, our imminent extinction will demonstrate that we are no brighter but a great deal more fragile than a simple bacterium.

Guest's picture

Guest

Monday, August 20, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

What's with the snarky

What's with the snarky "Oakland of all places" comment at the end of the segment about the guy trying to run his coffee shop sustainably? I've lived in Palo Alto and I've lived in Oakland, and believe me, I found a lot more serious and innovative thinking about climate change in Oakland than in P.A. And as to per capita emissions of greenhouse gases, counting consumption, travel, and everything else, I'll bet you and your Stanford colleagues put out about six times as much as the average Oaklander.

Guest's picture

Guest

Monday, August 20, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

Climate Change in my view is

Climate Change in my view is a moral issue.
1. Descriptive Definitions of ?morality?: source :http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/morality-definition/
?Morality? is an unusual word. It is not used very much, at least not without some qualification. People do sometimes talk about Christian morality, Nazi morality, or about the morality of the Greeks, but they seldom talk simply about morality all by itself. Consistent with this way of talking, many anthropologists used to claim that morality, like law, applies only within a society. They claimed that ?morality? refers to that code of conduct that is put forward by a society. However, even in small homogeneous societies that have no written language, distinctions are sometimes made among morality, etiquette, law, and religion. So, even for these anthropologists ?morality? does not often refer to every code of conduct put forward by a society.
礼仪有时被纳入道德的一部分,但它适用于那些被认为不那么严重的规范,而那些行为规范在基本意义上是道德的一部分。霍布斯在讨论礼仪时表达了标准的观点。我这里所说的礼仪并不是指行为举止的得体,如一个人如何向另一个人致意,一个人如何在众人面前刷牙剔牙,以及诸如此类的小道德,而是指关系到人类和平统一地生活在一起的那些品质。(Leviathan, Chapter XI, paragraph 1)
Law or a legal system is distinguished from morality or a moral system by having explicit written rules, penalties, and officials who interpret the laws and apply the penalties. Although there is often considerable overlap in the conduct governed by morality and that governed by law, laws are often evaluated on moral grounds. Moral criticism is often used to support a change in the law. Some have even maintained that the interpretation of law must make use of morality (Dworkin).
Religion differs from morality or a moral system in that it includes stories about events in the past, usually about supernatural beings, that are used to explain or justify the behavior that it prohibits or requires. Sometimes there is no distinction made between a moral code and a code of conduct put forward by a religion, and there is often a considerable overlap in the conduct prohibited or required by religion and that prohibited or required by morality. But religions may prohibit or require more than is prohibited or required by guides to behavior that are explicitly labeled as moral guides, and may allow some behavior that is prohibited by morality. Sometimes morality is regarded as the code of conduct that is put forward by religion, but even when this is not the case, morality is thought by many to need some religious explanation and justification. However, just as with law, some religious practices and precepts are criticized on moral grounds, e.g., discrimination on the basis of race, gender, or sexual orientation. Morality is only a guide to conduct, whereas religion is always more than this.
When ?morality? is used simply to refer to a code of conduct put forward by any actual group, including a society, whether it is distinguished from etiquette, law, and religion, then it is being used in a descriptive sense. It is also being used in the descriptive sense when it refers to important attitudes of individuals. Just as one can refer to the morality of the Greeks, so one can refer to the morality of a particular person. This descriptive use of ?morality? is now becoming more prominent because of the work of psychologists (Haidt) who have been influenced by the views of David Hume, who tried to present a naturalistic account of moral judgments. In the 20th century, R.M. Hare, in his earlier books (The Language of Morals, Freedom and Reason) regarded moral judgments as those judgments that override all nonmoral judgments and that the person would universalize. This account of moral judgments naturally leads to a view of morality as being concerned with behavior that a person regards as most important and as a guide to conduct that he wants everyone to adopt. All guides to behavior that are normally regarded as moralities involve avoiding and preventing harm to others, but all of them involve other matters as well. Hare's view of morality as that which is most important allows that these other features of morality may be more important than avoiding and preventing harm to others. This view of morality as concerning that which is most important allows those features related to religious practices and precepts, or those features related to customs and traditions, e.g., purity and sanctity, to be more important than avoiding and preventing harm.

mirugai's picture

mirugai

Tuesday, August 21, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

Astonishing, Arvo. You can

Astonishing, Arvo. You can sum up the history of life on Earth in one paragraph, and confidently predict its likely future as well! Wonderful! Please address what "consciousness" is, in this context, both what it is in a protoprokaryote, and in humans. A big challenge, I know, but that is what we philosophers do for a "living."

Guest's picture

Guest

Tuesday, August 21, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

The trouble with focusing on

专注于一个问题的麻烦在于它会导致还原论。想想当一件东西变得稀少时它的价值,它会导致灭绝(一件东西越少,它的购买成本就越高)。

Guest's picture

Guest

Wednesday, August 22, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

Things left to grow or stay

让事物生长或保持不变(被保留),最好在没有太多外部干扰的情况下做到这一点。就像银行里的钱一样。如果我们把它留在那里,忘记它,兴趣就会增长。我们是否应该一直专注于我们所拥有的东西,担心我们可能会失去它,并在同等程度上产生消费它的欲望。恐慌和欲望导致资源被浪费,而不是被保存。

mirugai's picture

mirugai

Thursday, August 23, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

I sent Arvo's post, along

I sent Arvo's post, along with my reply, to a consciousness expert, and a molecular biologist. Here are their responses:
雅各布:这是对现在非常好的评估,但也是对未来的主观看法。
Even presuming the worst of environmental collapses, we can presume a 1% survival rate for humanity or 700 mil people give or take. Certainly enough to rebuild given enough time. Even one-tenth of that (70 mil surviors) would give us a better than outside shot of surviving as a species.
而且,由于我们具有抽象和概括的能力(我认为原核生物没有这种能力),我希望,即使我们中的一小部分人也能隔离自己,在技术上进步并繁荣起来。
My hope is that sooner than later humanity will start to move into Space and hedge our bets, so to speak
I think that the really important issue is to engineer a foundationaly philosophy that encourages collectivism (less waste of resources) while also elevating greater enterprise (progress). My question is can that be done and not run into the pitfalls of things like Confucianism?
.
Patricia: I wholeheartedly agree with Jacob's expanded perspective on the short article you found. And while procaryotes presumably cannot strategically assess their relative opportunity of survival and propagation, they beat the odds with a number of evolutionarily selected propagation and dispersal strategies and a rate of mutation that is "finely tuned" to stay one step ahead of the changes in environment that bring about a range of genotypes for natural selection to act upon. (The "finely tuned" refers to the error rate at which DNA is replicated. High fidelity is key for perpetuation of the species, while a small number of errors, conservative and non-conservative, is key for generating potentially advantaged mutant offspring, depending on environmental conditions.) While we humans inherited all these abilities from our more "primitive" ancestors, we presumably (but who's to know) are also endowed with the cognitive ability to chart our opportunities of survival. The jury is still out on whether this ability will enhance our survival as a species... Populations of any species go through a stage of exponential growth when environmental conditions are optimal for growth and reproduction. When the population curve reaches saturation, namely when nutrients and resources become the limiting factors, a decline is inevitable and the population shrinks, often dramatically. The survivors happen to be the ones that/who have the genetic propensity for growth in the new or restricted environment. The population goes through a narrow funnel after which it may recover with the newly selected genetic makeup. The human population may well behave similarly, however, because of the slow rate of reproduction may not have the time to generate the requisite genetic diversity to keep up with the rapid rate of environmental change. Further, since the ones among us that are lucky enough to grow up in the developed world are largely not exposed to the typical selection pressures, our evolution may not have 'progressed' much at all vis-à-vis the changing environment. There will be a tipping point, perhaps not too far off, when sharply increased competition for resources will decimate our species. Nothing we can do.
当“好奇号”及其后继者在外太空找到适合我们基因和智力构成的地方时,我们就会像我们之前的原核生物一样分散……等等。

Guest's picture

Guest

Friday, August 24, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

mirugal, your input has

mirugal, your input has greatly enriched the topic. I tend to concur with Jacob and Patricia that human extinction will not occur in one great dying off; there will be a recovery of sorts, how far it gets depends upon several factors and is a matter of speculation for another time.
You questioned the matter of consciousness in an evolutionary context, and while I am somewhat out of my tree addressing such a topic, I will offer some speculations.
I would guess that the protoprokaryote and its progeny were ruled by natural (physical-chemical) laws of nature, and though they had the means of locomotion, they lacked any of the self-awareness needed for conscious reactions. After the protoprokaryote, the trail of human lineage becomes fuzzy until the appearance of the "roundish flatworm" about 3 billion years later. Though only a thirty-secondth of an inch long, it had animal features such as a gut and a hydrostatic skeletal system. At this point, rather than speculating on the consciousness from this ancestor onward, it seems desirable to condense 900 million years of evolution into 9 months by considering Ernst Haeckel's theory of recapitulation, which holds that the human embryo repeats the entire course of evolution during its nine months of development.
新受精的人类卵子,或合子,实际上是对低等原核生物的巨大进步。然而,受精卵在开始时也没有自我意识、环境意识或是非意识。随着胚胎的大脑和神经系统的发育,胚胎获得了无意识,也许后来还在子宫里的时候,意识的零星闪现。意识主要在出生后发展,分为三个阶段:自我意识、环境意识和对与错的意识(尽管自然界没有什么东西是如此有序和整齐)。Nevertheless, this is still the way a naive person might address moral issues:
首先,它对我有什么影响?
第二,它是如何影响每个人和其他事物的?
Third, how does it fit in with universal principles and values (or, perhaps, religious ordinances)?

Fred Griswold's picture

Fred Griswold

Saturday, August 25, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

I think what bothers me about

I think what bothers me about treating climate change as a moral issue is that morality (by definition?) doesn't allow for discussion. If something is taboo, you're just supposed to take that on faith. But a discussion of the causes and possible solutions of the problem is essential. For instance, I'm not particularly big on the idea of saving energy. We don't have an energy shortage, we have an oil shortage. If we design our energy usage right, we and everybody else in the world should be able to waste all the energy we want, the only limiting factor being how much we feel like paying for it. Reasonable people can probably differ on this, but it ought to be a part of the discussion. I suspect that treating it as a moral issue is just a way of shutting down discussion - global warming deniers are just wrong, take it or leave it.
On another issue, I don't buy the idea that we can very easily transplant ourselves to Mars or somewhere should we irretrievably ruin the earth. We have too many parasitic and symbiotic relationships here for that to be practical. Eating, for instance, is parasitism. Breathing depends on a symbiotic relationship with plants - the plants take up the carbon dioxide we breathe out and produce oxygen from it. We couldn't just transplant ourselves to another planet, we'd have to transplant our whole ecology too. As Cole Porter said, it's a lousy world but it's the only world in town.

Guest's picture

Guest

Monday, August 27, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

Fred, I have to challenge you

弗雷德,我得质疑你对道德的解读。如果我对你的理解正确的话,你对道德的“直觉主义”解释意味着(a)接受外部权威作为一个人可以和应该正确做什么的仲裁者,以及(b)权威要求什么概念。但是,正如牛津大学(Oxford)的亨利•西吉威克(Henry Sidgwick)在一个多世纪前指出的那样,道德决定更为复杂,人们会以三种不同的方式做出决定(我在之前的评论中提到过)。除了权威的范式要求之外,我们忽视对道德的功利主义解释和西吉威克所说的“利己主义”解释(你实际上用它来争论“我们和世界上的其他人应该能够浪费我们想要的所有能量,唯一的限制因素是我们愿意为它付出多少”)是不应该的。功利主义者可能会反对,这样的方法不能为大多数人带来最大的幸福;直觉主义者可能会回答说,你完全忽略了这样的政策对后代的影响。
事实证明,实践道德是非常易于讨论的;但问题是,什么样的讨论?我建议谈判比辩论好。辩论的结果是赢家和输家,或者平局,但不一定有任何真正的进展;另一方面,谈判允许从每个立场中获得最佳结果,以得到最优解决方案。

Fred Griswold's picture

Fred Griswold

Tuesday, August 28, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

Dictionary.com defines

Dictionary.com defines intuitionism as "the doctrine that moral values and duties can be discerned directly." When Moses brought the Ten Commandments down from the mountain, I doubt if he was expecting any debate from intuitionists about them. Intuitionism sounds like a democratized, early 19th century innovation on the subject. And when I said we should all be able to waste all the energy we want, I meant that if we design our energy usage right, so that we use solar, wind, geothermal etc., then we and future generations won't have to worry about global warming.

Guest's picture

Guest

Wednesday, August 29, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

I was using a rather older

I was using a rather older definition of Intuitionism which "regards as the practically ultimate end of moral actions their conformity to certain rules or dictates of Duty unconditionally prescribed." Thus, "discerned directly" means that, to the Intuitionist, actions are right or wrong without consideration of their consequences.
For sure, when Moses came down from the mountain with the Ten Commandments, he didn't expect debate about them from anyone. That was the point of the whole exercise. That is why the laws of Sumer, the world's first civilization, allegedly came from a Supreme God, and why the laws that Hammurabi presented to Babylon, the world's first empire, also allegedly originated with the Highest God. Because the laws of Sumer, Babylon and Moses allegedly came from a supreme (divine) authority, they were unexceptionable, inviolable, and unalterable. But, even so .....
考虑十诫中的一条,第七诫:“不可奸淫。”这条戒律在《申命记》22:22中以详细的形式重申,从一开始,这条戒律就被理解为适用于已婚妇女与丈夫以外的男人发生关系的所有情况,包括在任何情况下的强奸。没过多久,一些知名人士就意识到,让一个麻烦的妻子被强奸并被石头砸死,比经历一场混乱的离婚诉讼要方便得多。当这些不幸妇女的尸体开始堆积在城门外时,一场公开的抗议出现了,以至于拉比们不得不重新阅读他们的经文,他们注意到申命记22:22没有特别提到强奸。因此,他们能够把强奸已婚妇女和强奸订婚的处女等同起来。(申命记22:23-27)这无疑拯救了一些已婚妇女,虽然可能不是很多,因为任何一个有能力的强奸危机咨询师可能会告诉你,申命记的律法揭示了对强奸心理的极度无知。
On your final point, I am reminded of the environmentalist, Aldo Leopold, who, many decades ago, accused all world leaders, whatever their professed religion, of worshipping at the altar of Technology. It is true that the modern world is sustained by technological progress winning over imminent catastrophe; but, it is a race we must eventually lose. Our only hope is to extricate ourselves from the race and find a rational basis for a moral and sustainable future. (But, I am with you asregards space colonization.)

Guest's picture

Guest

Thursday, September 6, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

When we harm the planet we

When we harm the planet we harm ourselves.
It is not so much a question of morality but rather simply and unquestionably a matter of self-abuse.
Be one.
=

Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Monday, September 10, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

I'll make just a few comments

I'll make just a few comments on the foregoing comments. It appears that not much was said about the actual topic of the post: The Moral Costs of Climate Change. Much ado about evolutionary issues, who or what attains consciousness and how much, and similar concerns---but little speculation or opinionation about moral cost(s). The entry from, I think it was Patricia, was interesting to me, because it appeared to support Stephen Jay Gould and company's theorizations vis-a-vis, punctuated equilibrium. I found that interesting. Dr. Gould would be appreciative of this, I imagine. Now, if the ultimate survival (or demise) of homo sapiens satisfies the definition of "moral cost", then I suppose my critique is justifiably lame. But, one-celled, primitive life forms are ancestors, in the words of Dawkins, and do not embody the consciousness necessary to recognize morality---as far as we know.
The reference to Ernst Haeckel was note-worthy. In the minds of some, Haeckel is considered something of a hack. But, I am not a scientist---only an accolyte-so, I do not know all the facts of the matter. In summary, the post generated much lively discourse and was stimulating, to say the least. I could make some other criticisms, but those would betray my own biases, and would, therefore, be unproductive. May all of us keep thinking and discussing important issues. This remains one of the finer blogs, to which I have had the privilege of contributing.
Warm Regards,
HGN.

Guest's picture

Guest

Friday, October 5, 2012 -- 5:00 PM

I missed the Eco Conference

I missed the Eco Conference in my town this week. There were other priorities. I also missed seeing Carlos Santana, many years ago. Again, there were other priorities. Life often gets in the way of growth. The next world eco conference will be in France in more years than I care to think about. Oh---well. Life has been fun. E.O. Wilson was here, I am told---sorry I missed him.

mwsimon's picture

mwsimon

Saturday, November 22, 2014 -- 4:00 PM

Climate change is most

气候变化无疑是一个社会正义问题。人们通过对地球的毁灭做出贡献来赚取巨额的金钱,并使那些处于较不幸地位的人遭受痛苦。把它当作犯罪问题还是道德问题更有效,这本身就是一个问题——但肯定有错误的行为。
Why is it such a difficult problem to address? It seems, in some senses, similar to a prisoner's dilemna. Everyone would be best off if we stopped relying on fossil fuels. However, whoever stops loses some economic benefit. It's different in that the sides can communicate. If the actors were rational, I'd thinkt this would lead to addressing the problem. But so far, only nominal action has been taken. Hopefully, nations will work together soon to stop the burning of fossil fuels and other practices that are ruining the Earth.

mirugai's picture

mirugai

Saturday, November 22, 2014 -- 4:00 PM

CLIMATE CHANGE, WHAT TO DO?

CLIMATE CHANGE, WHAT TO DO?
Such fun to look back on the posts two years ago, and see how things have turned out since.
婴儿潮时期出生的进步人士和自由主义者把大部分精力花在种族主义、性别歧视、性别歧视、恐同、反犹太主义和其他在制度上已经平息的主义上。消除偏见永远不会发生。主要是因为他们的动机是罪恶感(他们自己的,以及他们想强加给别人的),以及人类最大的快乐、道德愤怒和随之而来的虔诚,他们让这些主义继续下去(千禧一代似乎没有这些罪恶感,可能是因为全球/互联网意识没有?)世界杯赛程2022赛程表欧洲区T支持内疚模型)。
What the progressives and liberals should be spending their energy on is capitalism, and democracy/capitalism: the real culprits. But, as good progressives have told me, ?we can?t talk about capitalism and democracy if we have any chance at all to win. It won?t sell politically, even to liberals.?
但是,正如嘉宾和娜奥米·克莱因(Naomi Klein)所指出的那样,现在对气候变化的影响采取任何行动都为时已晚。但从现在开始,唯一的希望是,如果生存变得紧迫,资本主义将必然地自行消亡。有一些民众革命认为,政府在解决基本需求方面完全失败,但这些都被压制或忽视,直到它们变成暴力(例如,墨西哥45名失踪的学生,或我们移民非常体面的需求,或我们用所有的税收来奖励华尔街的敲敲打打的艺术家,或轰炸和摧毁其他国家)。
The guest asked: ?Who is responsible for addressing the effects of global climate change?? Forget it; responsibility is a non-issue, at this point. Now we finally get to the moral issue: it is ?When you live in a (non-functioning) democracy, and the actions of the society are immoral, what do you do?? It is useless to try to organize, protest, vote, etc. to bring about change, because the options that are solutions are never going to come about.
Capitalism is about ?I want.? Socialism is about ?We need.? (Communism is, classically, about ?This is what you get.?) But in a democracy, those who have been so conditioned to capitalism cannot be good socialists, and will never vote for socialism. The guest made this same point; and he emphasized it saying that Americans are motivated by ?desires formed by habituation.?
美国人只能被迫做被要求做的事。我们不能改变我们的社会;我们唯一的希望就是自我改造。正如我之前在这里所主张的,生活在一个不道德的民主制度下,人们所能做的就是在一个人周围画一个圈。确保每个人都有一个温暖的房间,食物和水,得到锻炼和健康,在一个人可以帮助的程度。我一直反对生存主义者,因为他们专注于武器,但我现在开始认为,一个不那么全副武装的生存主义,一个更大的包容圈,可能是我们需要考虑的。

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emmakevin

Monday, December 15, 2014 -- 4:00 PM

你的博客真的很棒。

你的博客真的很棒。很高兴阅读。希望对所有人都有帮助。谢谢分享。see my blog also
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