Age, Ageism, and Equality

02 December 2021

Is age discrimination always wrong? How do we take people's age into account without being ageist? These are the questions we’re asking this week, in an episode called “Should All Ages Be Equal?

Clearly we don’t want to discriminate, say, against 50-something Brits when it comes to hiring. (I’d be out of a job at中国伊朗亚洲杯比赛直播!) But at the same time, we equally clearly don’t want to let a five-year-old drive a car, a 15-year-old buy a bottle of whisky, or a 40-year-old compete against kids in a spelling bee. So how do we draw the lines? And are we currently drawing them in a fair way?

Take the example of voting age. As it stands now, some twenty-five-year-old who knows nothing about politics gets to vote, but a smart 17-year-old who’s super plugged in doesn’t have any formal say in the future of their country. Why not?

One argument is that it’s onlytemporarily不公平的17岁。他们要做的就是等到十八岁,然后就可以投票了。每个人都必须遵守同样的规则;我们所有人最终都有机会投票,在完全相同的年龄。So the systemisfair.

But is it really? Is it right to discriminate against 17-year-olds, just because we discriminate against all of themin the same way? We wouldn’t say that about age discrimination in hiring (“It’s OK—we reject all the fifty-somethings”).

This problem becomes clearer when we think about wages. In some countries, the minimum wage for teenage workers is lower than the minimum age for adults. So you can get less money for doing exactly the same job as someone else, just because you’re a bit younger. How is that fair?

一个理由可能是年轻人不需要那么多钱:他们大部分都由父母照顾。但并不是所有的年轻人都这么幸运。即使你有一个舒适的家庭环境,这也不一定是你应该拿更少薪水的足够好的理由。如果一些25岁的年轻人搬回去和父母同住,这个人的薪水也应该被削减吗?

None of this, of course, is to say that we should treat people of all agesexactlythe same. For example, we don’t want 8-year-olds getting sent to work in factories; child labor laws are essential. But once someone is legally entitled to work, shouldn’t they be paid the same as everyone else?

Another justification for paying people differently based on age might be that a 15-year-old isn’t going to be as good a worker as an 18-year-old. Their prefrontal cortex isn’t as developed, so they’re going to be less mature, less reliable, and less resourceful.

Statistically speaking, that may be true, but it doesn’t mean every 18-year-old is going to be super-reliable either. Should some flakey 18-year-old really get paid more than a competent, responsible 15-year-old? It seems arbitrary to pay the 15-year-old less just because they’re a few years younger.

一般来说,似乎有些法律决定了我们在什么年龄被允许做什么,对他们来说有点武断。你可以在一个年龄工作,在另一个年龄开车,在第三个年龄参军——你仍然可能不能投票或喝酒(合法),这取决于你生活在哪个国家。

虽然我们可以消除系统中的一些任意性,但为了实际目的,我们仍然需要在某个地方画线。一旦我们把它们画出来,它们至少对每个人都是平等的。所以这肯定比什么都没有好。(不用说,当涉及到同意年龄时,这样的台词尤为重要。)

But is that really the best we can do, when it comes to age-related fairness?

Our guest on this week’s episode—Juliana Bidadanure from Stanford University—will definitely have things to say about that. She’s just published a book on the subject, calledJustice Across Ages: Treating Young and Old as Equals. I’m looking forward to hearing from her if there’s a way to prevent age discrimination and let 50-something Brits hang on to their jobs!

Photo byPaolo BendandionUnsplash

Comments(3)


Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Thursday, December 2, 2021 -- 12:50 PM

There are two different

这里有两个不同的问题,从节目到博客,年轻人的版权和一个50岁的英国人的特权。这两者之间有妥协的空间,如果没有一点哲学的话。权利、学习和后果是我要去的地方。比达努尔(拥护年轻人)/兰蒂(拥护他的工作-和老人),当被认为是比达努尔(B -分子)/兰蒂(L -分母)的分数时,总是大于1。从哲学上和历史上看,这个等式只是一个零头。我不是在强调人工智能,而是在神经网络和神经科学方面的工作告诉了这个等式(B/L>=1),并增加了一点复杂性。

Age of consent and right to retire (slash need to retire) are tied to development. Ill-conceived lines can diminish health and happiness. Child coyotes at the border and soldiers in Africa and South East Asia are three examples of oppressed young. The houseless, Covid administration to elderly first and estate taxes are examples of elder oppression or favoritism. Adjusting the age of voting and privilege seems right. The world has changed and is calling for a revision in coming-of-age rights and services for the elderly.

这部剧触及了很多我赞同的观点。某种形式的统一基本收入(UBI)似乎是正确的,此外,还应扩大年轻人的投票权,让高度早熟的人有额外的能力申请权利——如果需要的话。我知道这些想法受到现实的限制,但现在是重新考虑现实的时候了。

Something that wasn't touched on in the show was service. I advocate for mandatory military service or like-minded government exposure for teenagers. This service could be a gate to voting rights and UBI in a lump sum or life-long stipend.

Education is an age-based educational system, at the moment, that is being disrupted with online MOOCs and structured curricula allowing people to learn at their own pace, interest, and ability. Some of the ageist issues are dealt with in this way. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is a project in this vein. The idea that one way, board-delivered testing determines life path is frigid and dated.

最后,神经网络模拟了人类的学习,并为本次讨论提供了信息。人工智能不像智人那样以发展为前提。通过深度学习对世界的感知将让人们看到他们有限的生理能力无法解决的问题。我所提出的是一种面向年轻人和老年人的人工智能服务(以解决不平等问题——当然,中年危机的受害者和批评者也需要关注——但问题陈述主要是针对年轻人和老年人的)。这是一种微妙的关系。在思考权利和责任时,我们需要关注我们与手机/网络身份的关系。

This response doesn't answer the questions asked here, but it's where I'm sitting now. Let's save Josh's job and allow his students a bit more freedom and promise.

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Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Tuesday, January 18, 2022 -- 7:34 AM

I tried to answer this in

我试图在2021年发布这篇文章时的评论中回答这个问题。显然,在我二十岁的时候,有些事情是我做不到的。同样清楚的是,在我目前的成熟状态中,存在着这样的事情。我现在可能有能力成为一名医生——更有可能的是没有足够的时间来进行那种转变。最近,我问了一个关于药物剂量的(我认为)合理的问题。那个医生变得很矮,为我辩护:在这个危急时刻,我浪费了她的时间。更不要说积极主动的医疗保健了。你说话要小心。当你说的时候。这是真的,在任何年龄。

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Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Thursday, February 17, 2022 -- 5:54 AM

Having been in an occupation

Having been in an occupation where some knowledge of law and due process was required, I learned early that one must understand a fundamental distinction. When discussing discrimination, it is necessary to differentiate that which is unlawful from that which is merely deplorable and unbecoming. One can be chastised for the latter, even ostracized under certain circumstances. The former, when charged under an applicable statute, is actionable in court. So, points are taken: some discrimination is unlawful and legally actionable; other acts or behaviors are socially frowned upon but not unlawful, per se (as such).Distinctions are a circumstance, in law as well as in philosophy.

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