Dualism Strikes Back? Live Blogging!

09 August 2008

今天节目的控制问题之一是,在21世纪,一个消息灵通、有科学头脑的人是否还能相信二元论?或者二元论真的只是过去哲学的遗迹吗?

当然,现在几乎没有理由相信老式的笛卡尔精神和身体的二元论。根据这种二元论的形式,心灵和身体是两个形而上上截然不同的物质——身体在空间中被扩展,而心灵在某种程度上是非物质的,没有扩展,没有位置。

Cartesian dualism is unsustainable for many, many reasons. It's bad enough that it makes a mystery of mind-body interaction. But it also makes a mystery of the mind itself. Descartes believed that the mind was an indivisible simple, that it could not be broken down into an organized collection of interacting parts. But the mind obviously has a vast diversity of its possible states. It can think a potential infinity of thoughts. It can perceive and feel. And it's perceptions and feelings come with a vast variety of intrinsic qualitative characters. How could such infinite diversity subsist in a simple indivisible thing, with no internal structure of organized parts?

Though Cartesian Substance dualism is dead. Other forms of dualism live on. Many philosophers of mind areproperty dualists. The property dualist grants that there is only one class of "stuff" in the world -- material stuff. But the property dualist insists that there are (at least) two kinds of properties that the one kind of stuff can have -- mental properties and physical properties. The property dualist insists that mental properties aren't identical with any physical properties.

但财产二元论并不像笛卡尔的物质二元论那么激进——或者至少不需要如此。这是因为属性二元论经常认为,尽管精神属性不能简化为物理属性,也不等同于物理属性,但它们在某种意义上"依赖"物理属性。一些性质二元论认为,如果你固定了一件事物的所有物理性质,那么你也就固定了它所有的精神性质。这种关系的专业术语是“附随性”。如果精神属性在物理属性之后,这仍然给了我们一种二元论的形式,但相当温和的一种。

What about stronger forms of dualism that deny that mental properties even supervene on physical properties? Does anybody believe in that any more? Could a rational, informed, scientifically minded person believe in such a thing?

也许令人惊讶的答案是肯定的。一些非常有科学头脑,非常理性的思考者确实相信某种形式的二元论,否认精神甚至是物理上的附加现象。今天,在我们的巡回哲学记者的报道中,我们将简要地听取一位这样的思想家的看法。我现在不会告诉你那是谁。你会听到自己的声音。

但我要说,意识是当代二元论最后的避难所。这是因为意识体验似乎具有我们目前最好的物理、生物和心理学理论无法解释的特性。特别是,我们的意识经验具有内在的定性特征。这些定性特征是这些经历的基本特征。有一个相当有力的论点认为,我们体验的内在定性特征不可能(完全)用物理学、生物学或心理学来解释。我相信我们会在节目中讨论这个问题,所以我就不在这里重复了。

What I'd instead like you to do is join the discussion. Leave a comment on this blog entry about dualism. Share your thoughts with us and with the world. If it's a particularly apt or insightful comment, we'll try to get it in on the air.

Comments(15)


matthew's picture

matthew

Saturday, August 9, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

While specifically "Cartesian" substance dualism m

While specifically "Cartesian" substance dualism may be dead, Substance Dualism has contemporary defenders in Alvin Plantinga and Dean Zimmerman among others. While most of these philosophers who still defend Substance Dualism are self professed Christians, I'd hope that they are still considered rational, informed, and scientifically minded.

Guest's picture

Guest

Saturday, August 9, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

Finding solutions to problem of free will is of im

Finding solutions to problem of free will is of immediate importance to all moral philosophers and philosophers of action. Free will is becoming more and more dubious as contemporary arguments for materialism and determinism seem to be incompatible with free will.
Here's the concepts in the simplest terms possible:
物质主义——物质世界就是一切。
Determinism - every event is casually determined by prior events
Free will - humans (or rational agents) have control over their actions and decisions
Common problems:
-如果每个事件都是由之前的事件随意决定的,自由意志怎么可能?
- If my will to move my hand is an entirely physical event, then isn't my will determined by physical mechanisms which I lack control over (i.e. the will is just the illusion of choice and, in actuality, is caused by a chain of physical occurrences)?
I don't have the time to go into the complexities and nuances of the debate between free will and determinism or materialism, but I will supply some links below to those interested in the problem of free will:
A good start (the bibliography lists some of the essential literature) -http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/
A blog run by UC Riverside -http://gfp.typepad.com/the_garden_of_forking_pat/
Another method is to type "free will" into JSTOR and prepare to read.

Guest's picture

Guest

Saturday, August 9, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

One reason why so-called substance dualism is rela

所谓的物质二元论在一神论者中相对流行的一个原因是,实际上存在一种潜在的物质一元论(因为造物是在本质上简单的上帝之后出现的)。这也许是保留“笛卡尔二元论”这个老名字的一个原因。(另一个原因是,我们可能会想起解析几何中的笛卡尔坐标——伟大的科学家并不害怕这个假设。)所以我认为没有什么合理的理由来支持笛卡尔二元论的主张应该得到捍卫。那么多原因是什么呢?
Note that the dualism is soul and brain, rather than mind and body. Even on Cartesian dualism, the form of the mind is determined in large part by the structure of the brain. Cartesian dualists are fans of science, but they also see a need for something like a soul, and can see no rational grounds for discounting that particular possibility. They do not make a mystery of mind; rather, mind is a mystery! And if we have souls, then souls are even more of a mystery (as is an elementary particle of course, which is simply assumed to have no internal structure for the purposes of a fundamental theory). As for the soul-brain interaction, that is less of a mystery since the work of Sir Karl Popper on the (realistic) propensity interpretation of quantum-mechanical probabilities.
All the alternative interpretations of such probabilities remain seriously flawed. And while the governing equations of the interaction remain a mystery, that is surely more of a reason to pursue research into it (e.g. via experiments on micro-PK) than to ignore it prematurely (on the grounds that Cartesian Substance dualism is dead). Cartesian dualism is often dismissed summarily on the grounds of physical closure, so note that such closure has not yet been demonstrated. It is not a matter of not observing ordinary objects levitating, but of being able to rule out any micro-PK effects upon the chemicals within thinking brains, and such experiments just have not been done.

Guest's picture

Guest

Sunday, August 10, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

Footnote on scientific respectability: The Nobel-p

Footnote on scientific respectability: The Nobel-prize-winning neurophysiologist Sir John Eccles was a Cartesian dualist (see his 1994 book "How the Self Controls Its Brain").

Guest's picture

Guest

Sunday, August 10, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

E.J. Lowe advocates a view that he calls Non-Carte

E.J. Lowe advocates a view that he calls Non-Cartesian substance dualism (NCSD). Here's a much-too-brief description:

NCSD maintains that persons or selves are distinct from their organic physical bodies and any parts of those bodies. It regards persons as `substances' in their own right, but does not maintain that persons are necessarily separable from their bodies, in the sense of being capable of disembodied existence.

Guest's picture

Guest

Sunday, August 10, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

As I understand the concept, dualism refers to abo

As I understand the concept, dualism refers to about 1/2 physics and the rest metaphysics. Also, it should apply to some degree to the higher mammals at least (a bit of a sobering thought).
尽管许多人否认,量子物理仍然在与波函数“塌缩”(非“退相干”)和“维格纳的朋友”论点(解决严格量子不确定性的“观察者”是什么)搏斗。随着牛顿或拉普拉斯决定论的消亡,神经系统功能基础上的因果关系肯定也同样消失了。
有一件事是肯定的:没有人知道如何“科学地解释”人类(或动物?? ?)的意识,而且在人类对宇宙的认识方面,任何其他的主张都是无中生有的。

Guest's picture

Guest

Sunday, August 10, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

As I understand the concept, dualism refers to abo

As I understand the concept, dualism refers to about 1/2 physics and the rest metaphysics. Also, it should apply to some degree to the higher mammals at least (a bit of a sobering thought).
尽管许多人否认,量子物理仍然在与波函数“塌缩”(非“退相干”)和“维格纳的朋友”论点(解决严格量子不确定性的“观察者”是什么)搏斗。随着牛顿或拉普拉斯决定论的消亡,神经系统功能基础上的因果关系肯定也同样消失了。
有一件事是肯定的:没有人知道如何“科学地解释”人类(或动物?? ?)的意识,而且在人类对宇宙的认识方面,任何其他的主张都是无中生有的。

Guest's picture

Guest

Sunday, August 10, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

"And there exists a pretty powerful argument to th

"And there exists a pretty powerful argument to the effect that the intrinsic qualitative characters of our experiences couldn't possibly be (fully) explained by physics, biology, or psychology."
The argument seems to be that because we can clearly and distinctly conceive of a duplicate of our world in respect of its "extrinsic" properties (call these "E-properties") that is phenomenally void, an explanation for consciousness will have to reside in so-called "intrinsic" properties (call these "I-properties").
The obvious problem with this argument is that we can just as clearly and distinctly conceive of a duplicate of our world in respect of both E- and I-properties that is phenomenally void! In other words, the argument only works by stipulating that its hypothesized-but-unspecified property class contains all and only those properties required to give rise to (and to explain) consciousness.

Guest's picture

Guest

Tuesday, August 19, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

Mr. Vallicella's offering may yet be proof that th

Mr. Vallicella's offering may yet be proof that there are things that can exist and yet have no substance.

Guest's picture

Guest

Wednesday, August 20, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

The post on Vallicella's blog is highly relevant b

The post on Vallicella's blog is highly relevant because, as he has shown, there is no clear verdict on the debate between dualism and materialism.
一个公正的方法是好的哲学思考的关键。不幸的是,时髦的思维常常导致哲学家们驳回这些主张,甚至没有提供一个令人信服的论据来说明为什么这些主张应该被驳回。
Dogmatism has historically been the greatest impediment to philosophical progress, and I doubt that that will change. Logic was more or less unchallenged since Aristotle until Frege came along. A similar story follows from Plato's idealism. Likewise, in our day, the canonical doctrine seems to be that of scientific naturalism, which is likely due to Quine's influence. While it is possible that science will eventually explain mental phenomena, there is no conclusive evidence to support that possibility. Conclusions ought to be reached through arguments, not through appeals to prejudice.

Guest's picture

Guest

Wednesday, September 3, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

One musn't forget, in this context philosophers wh

One musn't forget, in this context philosophers who may fall into the none of the above category. My personal favorite for nomination is Galen Strawson, whose peculiar brand of panpsychicism avoids many of the traps of both old dualism and Dennett style modern monism.

Guest's picture

Guest

Saturday, November 29, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

It seems very easy to get lost in the idea that im

It seems very easy to get lost in the idea that imagination makes the mind greater than the brain or at least immaterial. My problem is if the mind is separate and either bound by different laws or bound by none at all then why is it so much narrower in scope from the brain? Neurologists like Ramachandran seem to be making great strides in decoding things like synesthesia which tricks the senses and showing us all of the things our brain does without us being aware of it. I know from personal experience that I can cut myself and my body bleeds and I assume cellular activity changes and my heartrate as well but I can remain unaware of the pain from the cut until I notice the blood. This seems to me strong evidence, although i realize it may never be conclusive, that the mind and brain are not only one but that the mind is the lesser of the two.
Everyone has heard the hardware/software comparrison but I think it is even far simpler than that and the brain is the software, the body the hardware and consciousness merely a query that responds to commands as in a computer.
我认为,从心理学的角度来看,没有什么比计算机更类似了。可以说是人类最伟大最具人性的创造物当然也是最接近人体的操作程序。计算机有大脑、中枢神经系统、感官处理器和外围设备。在我看来,这是显而易见的,它是根据我们自己的形象创建的,它反映了我们的操作系统尽可能真实。
My one question would be that if consciousness is part of the physical brain, as an artist myself, would I truly be capable of originality or do I merely construct images based on things that I have experienced in my own life? Is the level of artisic creativity then the measure of how many different sources an artist uses to construct an image?

Guest's picture

Guest

Tuesday, September 22, 2009 -- 5:00 PM

It is philosophically irresponsible to claim that

It is philosophically irresponsible to claim that there is almost no rational grounds for believing in Cartesian Dualism. There are many well-educated and quite sophisticated philosophers, like Richard Swinburne of Oxford and Alvin Plantinga of Notre Dame who believe in a similar dualism to that of the Cartesian kind, just to name a few.
此外,声称笛卡尔二元论使身心问题变得神秘,当然不是反对笛卡尔二元论的逻辑兼形而上学的论点。宇宙是如何起源的,这很可能是一个谜,但它实际上并不是没有起源的。只是声称这是一个谜,并不是说大爆炸没有发生。笛卡尔二元论也是如此。仅仅宣称这是一个关于这些不同实体如何相互作用的谜,并不能成为反对这一论点本身的论据。