Saint Augustine

25 January 2008

What an interesting philosopher he turned out to be! And an interesting man, too. Set aside his historical importance --- the fact that he above all others brought together the Greek and Hebrew aspects of Christianity, that his work against the heresies of Arianism, Pelagianism and Manicheanism was tireless and and that, as many think, he is responsible for many of the more unfortunate aspects of Christianity, such as the low status of women, the negative attitude towards sex and other enjoyable bodily appetites, and the harsh doctrine of original sin. Just read him as a person with one great philosophical skill: he knows how to get puzzled by things, and then thinks hard about what to say about them.

Augustine's mother, Saint Monica, was a Christian, and wanted him to become one. When he got an involuntary erection as a teenager in the public baths, she was mortified. His father wasn't Christian, and took pride in his son's precocious erection. So Augustine started life somewhat conflicted. He spent the first part of his life as a Manichean, much to his mother's distress. He led a successful life as a teacher of Rhetoric, ending up with an important position in Milan, the intellectual capital of the Roman Empire in those days (4th and 5th centuries). Monica followed him, nagging him to become a Christian, without effect. He had a mistress, enjoyed sex, and was famous and influential.

His reluctance to please his mother and become a Christian stemmed from his philosophical bent. He took the problem of Evil quite seriously (even before he came to regard his own healthy appetites as part of the problem), and thought that the Manichean solution, that God wasn't omnipotent, but had to battle ceaselessly with the forces of Evil, the earth being a main battleground, was intellectually preferable.

But eventually, as a result of continued pressure from Saint Monica, exposure to Saint Ambrose in Milan, and disappointing interactions with the leading Manichean intellectuals (and perhaps some intervention by the Holy Ghost), Augustine became a Christian. He decided that he would not only be a Christian, but a priest, which meant celibacy; hence, his famous prayer, "Lord give me chastity and continence, but not yet."

Once fully converted, he returned to Africa, became Bishop of Hippo, and became the leading intellectual in Christendom, writing tirelessly, fighting the big heresies of Arianism, Pelagianism, Manichenism, and Donostianism. Arianism had already been declared a heresy at Constantine's Council of Nicea in 325. Arians thought that Jesus was a created being, not identical with God; the Nicene Creed affirms that Jesus and God are of the same substance, which usually in philosophy means one and the same thing. The Trinitarian Doctrine, that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one being, makes little sense as far as I can see, and is the reason Moslems, among others, have doubts about Christianity being a monotheistic religion.

Pelagius was a British Monk who read Augustine'sConfessionsand was shocked at what he found. Pelagius has the sort of straightforward idea that we have free-will; we can freely choose to do the right thing or the wrong thing, and we are punished or rewarded accordingly. Augustine said that this was true of Adam, but since his sin we have not had the power to the right thing, except by dint of God's Grace. The good news is that if we ask for his Grace, we get it. However, since it seems that asking for his Grace is an instance of doing the right thing, how comforting is this? Augustine's view of original sin, free-will, grace, and the like became orthodoxy, although the Catholic Church didn't push the point. His view appealed to Luther, and other Prostestant "reformers", and became the basis of PreDestination and a number of other things most modern protestants would rather forget.

摩尼教是奥古斯丁在他生命的第一部分接受的宗教。它的创始人玛尼,认为自己是某种基督徒。在早期的基督教中,它被禁止,被谩骂,被诋毁等等,但不断出现。

Augustine's rejection of Manicheanism meant that he had to come up with an alternative account of Evil, and his efforts to do so, which are detailed in hisConfessions, are influential among Christian theologians to this day. The main components are:

  • 大局观之争。仅仅因为某件事在孤立的情况下看起来是卑鄙的、恶心的、愚蠢的,并不意味着它是邪恶的。因为它可能是美德、美丽或智慧的一部分,而它是整个整体的一部分。阿加莎·克里斯蒂的小说中总是有谋杀案,这在孤立的情况下是丑陋的,但如果没有谋杀案,整个谜题会有多有趣?(这不是奥古斯丁的例子)。
  • The Free-will Defense. God thought that a world with Free Agents in it would be better than one without. He could have had a world with virtuous automatons, who did just what he programmed them to do. But what a bore that would be. And if one of those automatons loved Him, what would that mean? So he created a world with Free Beings in it, even though he realized that by doing so, inevitably some would choose to do evil things. Hence, as an instance of the Big Picture point, the best of all possible worlds, because it contains freedom, also contains evil
  • Angels, Devils, and Natural Evil. When we think of free creatures, we naturally think of humans, who certainly do their share of evil deeds. But not all evil seems to stem from human action. How about cancer? And the suffering of innocent animals? And earthquakes. However, Augustine thought that there were a lot of other free creatures creating havoc.
  • Pride. This all suggests that God has some plan, such that, if we could see it, we could see that this is, in spite of the genocide of Indians, the Holocaust, cancer, war, pestilence, and so on, the best of all possible worlds. If we could see the Big Picture, all would fall into place. But who can see such a picture? But to expect to see the Big Picture is to commit the sin of pride. God is infinite, we are finite, very finite, so we shouldn't expect to figure out what He might have had in mind.

These are, as far as I can see, the basic elements of Augustine's "theodicy" --- a theodicy is basically a solution to the problem of evil. These basic elements are the basis of all subsequent theodicies that I've ever seen.

A cynic might say that it's a good thing that Christianity is so implausible (at least, superficially considered), otherwise Saint Augustine's intellect wouldn't have been challenged, and he wouldn't have produced so much thoughtful, truly interesting philsophy, full of distinctions and insights.

The Donostian Heresy, by the way, had to do with whether we could know that a priest really was a priest. Donotists said we really couldn't. Suppose his lineage goes back through some priest that had forsaken his faith, perhaps under Roman torture. Augustine defended the practical answer, from the Church's point of view: a priest is a priest even if some priest in the succession of priests that led to his being a priest committed some terrible sin. Fighting this particular heresy, as far as I know, didn't provoke Augustine to come up with any very fecund philosphical ideas. But perhaps it shows his practical side.

Comments(14)


Guest's picture

Guest

Saturday, January 26, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

谢谢你对圣奥古斯丁的总结。I have

谢谢你对圣奥古斯丁的总结。我一直想知道圣奥古斯丁是如何处理基督教千禧年主义的。我认为他那个时代的很多基督教教派都是原教旨主义者?现代意义上的;专注于第二个即将到来的末日;坚信他们的象征宇宙绝对完美地映射了现实;相信他们与上帝有直接的私人关系,就像再洗礼派一样。
他是否试图将重点转移到第二次降临上?还有宗教上的过度热情?
Does he ever mention the word fanaticism --- those pagan cults that ?believed too intensely?

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Guest

Saturday, January 26, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

So, I'm writing about St Augustine. After ignorin

So, I'm writing about St Augustine. After ignoring him for years and years as a professional philosopher, I found myself stuck with him. I found him to be intelligent- gads, who'd have guessed? Terribly sexist, of course, and like all Christians he hates sex- how I generalize away here! And he actually believed in that Trinity stuff, which I find completely foolish. Um, he even wrote a book about that, De Trinitate. No, I haven't read it- don't I get broadmindedness points for deigning to read him at all? But I mean to say, I'm a good contemporary intellectual type, despise what every bien pensant assumes Christianity to be, and so on, and I'm sure that Augustine's being African must be somehow related to celebrating diversity; but that doesn't mean I'm actually going to take him _seriously_.

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Guest

Sunday, January 27, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

Augustine?s mission, together with the other ear

Augustine?s mission, together with the other early religious ?pioneers,? appears to boil down to mainly establishing a distinction between religion and superstition. The question seems relatively settled these days. In today?s much-discussed ?influence of religion in (U.S.) politics?, there?s probably little worry about political influences arising from generally agreed superstition. But what if one should look at the question again in the modern age. Religion and superstition both appear to share identical commonalities, from a basis in the preternatural to a certain amount of ?faith? in their respective essentials. Religionists continue to argue that there is a special or remarkable history that supports their religious tenets. Claims of ?miraculous? occurrences are still often cited, as compared to what?s declared as bogus quackery proffered by the superstitious. For example, there is the ?miracle of life?, which judging from the vehemence exhibited by the creationist movement, seems to be the principal if not exclusive modern apology for certain religions. It?s also maintained that religion is ?more logical? than superstition; albeit in the absence of a well-established set of theoretical postulates now considered absolutely mandatory in mathematics or physics (although some solid practical ones could be of value, e.g., a most persuasive premise in the minds of world leaders in arms race deliberations is mutually assured destruction. However, most religions have always tended to see issues first in terms of doctrinal principles, to which empirical data is accommodated only when considered necessary). In short, the maintained distinction between religion and superstition continues to come down to claims arising from their ancestral stories, and arguments based largely on idiomatic beliefs like ?inerrancy of immutable writings?, or a most curious proposition heard recently on talk-radio: ?less slaughter in religious wars than in secular wars? (before weapons of mass destruction that is!!). This also happens to be the kind of thinking used for establishing primacy among the legion of competing or alternative religions that have materialized since Augustine.
In view of the above it?s ?tempting? to substitute the word ?superstition? for ?religion? and see what happens. I say do it in all cases where religion influences or exercises power. When humans go about their irresistible impulse to quash and dominate one another, there could at least be an attempt to base this on some sort of logical rationale instead of ?inspired? mandates coming from spirits (egad). But, speaking of logical premises, to the extent the golden-rule is promulgated by a religion ? you?d better believe it!!
在所有这些情况下,我必须承认,我对人类有意识地干预自然的能力完全感到惊讶和困惑,这种能力完全脱离了客观物理的运作,这是奥古斯丁所提出的?肯。在众多的例子中,有一种附带的能力是做善事或实施酷刑和杀戮。请注意,无论一个人希望事物是怎样的,物理学(包括自然选择的生物物理学)不允许在生命游戏规则之外有其他选择。与奥古斯丁遥不可及的想象相反,宇宙遵循着固定且常常令人惊讶的规律。结果,除了不可避免地陷入自然系统的现实,包括它不受欢迎的后果之外,我们还发现,我们的存在本身取决于宇宙究竟是什么。所以,即使在量子世界里,我也像奥古斯丁的世界里一样,只能想象一个不可思议的大图景?至少作为神秘的因果报应的默认选择,以便以某种方式纠正生命游戏中的所有荒谬。这表明,后奥古斯丁启蒙运动现在可以总结为:没有选择,只能做你能做的,并希望最好的!

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Guest

Friday, February 1, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

When will you post this episode for download? I o

When will you post this episode for download? I only caught the last 20 minutes on a replay recently and I'm very eager to hear the whole show! Great topic!

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Guest

Tuesday, February 5, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

Without an understanding of the theory of evolutio

Without an understanding of the theory of evolution, an explanation of mankind's evil nature and tendencies towards tribal warfare and all of it's bad consequences was answerable by Augustine's Doctrine of Original Sin and redemption by grace. In today's world we rail against human social evil which takes the forms of sexism, bigotry, racism and class suppression which very much reflects a need for some redemption.
同样,如果没有爱因斯坦关于物质如何从能量和一些未知事物中产生的理论;奥古斯丁的三位一体教义,一个看不见的上帝成为一个人,仍然与他看不见的自我结合,这有令人难以置信的相似之处。
All of the time modern theists and atheists are arguing in abstract terms about the existence and/or non-existence of a GOD, the thing they all actually share is an argument about the origin of their own minds.
Or may we say that, "the joke's on us".

Guest's picture

Guest

Wednesday, February 6, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

There are other conceptions of deity than the

There are other conceptions of deity than the
old man in the sky--or the Old Testament's jealous
and often vindictive entity.
There is God identified with pure being, as with
Brahman in Yoga, or similarly in the sermons of the German Medieval Catholic priest, Meister Eckhardt. Eckhardt said that one must "completely leave creatures(the material)" in order to experience God and that in the highest experience we are as one with God.
在不变的存在中,有人添加了爱、和平和绝对的完整,从这一点上没有任何缺失。的确,印度圣人拉玛那·玛哈西(Ramana Maharshi)说过,欲望的满足之所以令人愉悦,是因为刺激的欲望停止了,而纯粹存在的真正和平有机会发光——直到另一个欲望出现,遮蔽了它。世界杯赛程2022赛程表欧洲区

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Guest

Wednesday, February 6, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

In Christianity we can say that St Paul, St August

在基督教中,我们可以说圣保罗、圣奥古斯丁、马太、路加、马可、约翰和彼得是“佛”,他们通过福音书和新约把人的思想和神的本质联系起来。耶稣本质上是一个“与众不同”的人,他是与人类的“我”或自我冲突的人,自我是我们的潜意识,在那里我们持有我们的信仰状态和文化规则等。我们可以说,我们的潜意识是我们意识的“黑暗部分”,或者是被“黑暗王子”统治的意识。

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Guest

Thursday, February 21, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

Looks like many of their minds have been programme

Looks like many of their minds have been programmed for a third and fourth world war.
人口趋于平衡。
大自然创造了不同种族和物种之间的平衡。
我们是相同的,但又不同。

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Tuesday, March 4, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

(This is not the right forum, but...) It's a littl

(This is not the right forum, but...) It's a little disappointing that one must pay to play here (here being the podcasts--I can't tune in). How that limits your audience! Preventing a person from stumbling upon your great show! It's proven time and again that popular radio shows do better to make their podcasts available for free (e.g. This American Life), increasing their popularity and ultimately financial backing. How badly is public radio hurting in your neck of the woods?
抱歉打断你们关于奥古斯丁的谈话,他很有趣。

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Guest

Tuesday, April 22, 2008 -- 5:00 PM

So, I'm writing about St Augustine. After ignoring

So, I'm writing about St Augustine. After ignoring him for years and years as a professional philosopher, I found myself stuck with him. I found him to be intelligent- gads, who'd have guessed?

Guest's picture

Guest

Monday, November 17, 2008 -- 4:00 PM

我对他已经不再崇拜了。Augustine is

我对他已经不再崇拜了。奥古斯汀sooverrated。他的整个《上帝之城》都是在西塞罗的《共和国》的文本上写成的。多亏了他,那份非常重要的文件直到19世纪才丢失。直到今天,我们还没有完整的版本,无法恢复它的全部。要我说,西塞罗是被低估的哲学家。

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 -- 4:00 PM

Is it just me, or does O'Donnell sound just like t

Is it just me, or does O'Donnell sound just like the Simpsons' Rev. Timothy Lovejoy at times? Just sayin'.

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Guest

Wednesday, October 13, 2010 -- 5:00 PM

我对他已经不再崇拜了。Augustine is

我对他已经不再崇拜了。奥古斯汀sooverrated。他的整个《上帝之城》都是在西塞罗的《共和国》的文本上写成的。多亏了他,那份非常重要的文件直到19世纪才丢失。直到今天,我们还没有完整的版本,无法恢复它的全部。要我说,西塞罗是被低估的哲学家。