所有年龄的人都应该平等吗?

Sunday, November 28, 2021

What Is It

年龄在很大程度上决定了你在社会中的地位——你能做什么活动,你能获得什么好处,你有什么权利和责任。虽然以不同的方式对待人生不同阶段的人似乎是合适的,但我们也认为某些不平等的对待是不公平的。那么我们应该在什么时候区别对待不同年龄的人呢?什么时候变成了年龄歧视或年龄歧视?一个年龄段的劣势什么时候变成了对一代人的不公?Josh and Ray act their age with Juliana Bidadanure from Stanford University, author ofJustice Across Ages: Treating Young and Old as Equals.

Listening Notes

Should society treat everyone the same way? Is it possible to prevent age discrimination while still taking age into account? While Josh believes that restrictions for purchasing alcohol and child labor laws are important, he’s a little less sure about the importance of age for voting restrictions and equal pay. In contrast, Ray thinks the rules we have now may be arbitrary but apply equally to everyone.

The hosts welcome Juliana Bidananure, Professor of Philosophy and Political Science at Stanford University, to the show. Her research is driven by the question of why some inequalities between age groups are acceptable, while others are not. Ray asks why the existing system needs to be changed at all, to which Juliana responds that we should scrutinize our current intuitions and differential treatments more carefully in order to show equal concern for all stages of life. Josh brings up the Brexit vote and the possibility of lowering the voting age, which prompts Juliana to discuss the importance of having young adults in parliaments. She thinks that political representatives should look like the citizens they represent, and younger age groups in particular need a larger space to voice their concerns.

In the last segment of the show, Josh, Ray, and Juliana discuss the implications of maximum voting ages and mandatory retirement ages. Juliana worries about inequalities that increase generational inequality, and she explains why she would create a basic income for all ages if she had the power to create a society that is fair for all generations. Since future generations will have new challenges to overcome, Juliana believes we should want them to be better off and not suffer from the same difficulties that previous generations had.

  • Roving Philosophical Report (Seek to 3:47)→ Holly J. McDede investigates why some people are campaigning to lower the voting age.
  • Sixty-Second Philosopher (Seek to 45:55)→ Ian Shoales reminisces about coming of age and considers how the Internet combats ageism.

Transcript

Transcript

Josh Landy
年龄歧视总是错误的吗?
Ray Briggs
Would we really want to let a 13 year old drive?
Josh Landy

Comments(6)


Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Saturday, October 23, 2021 -- 3:14 PM

The graphic is interesting..

The graphic is interesting...a parallel to that used for representation of evolution itself. However, any notion of equality within the ages of man fails to establish a point. If, indeed, there was one to begin with. Which I doubt. See, ' child is father to the man' is merely quaint metaphor. At best. Worn-out aphorism, at best. 'Equal' is slippery. Equal, compared with what/whom? You just can't play it this way. Children are born, grow,live, grow old and die. This does not happen in reverse. Nor, should it.
What is really being asked here? Is this just an allegory? It is not about savant or prodigy, I think: exception is ANOTHER rule....though we do not dream it that way. As a practical matter, equal is that which has been earned. Not inherited. Or bestowed...

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Sunday, October 24, 2021 -- 1:54 PM

Juliana's book is too

Juliana's book is too expensive for me (over a hundred dollars – cheaper on Kobo – but still… ouch.) Maybe PT could finagle a discount for PT subscribers? (Just saying.) I did buy Amia Srinivasan's book only to have the show canceled. Here is the free abstract on Juliana's book. She has several other papers out as well. I can post those public abstracts if anyone can't find them.

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/justice-across-ages-978019879218...

Justice Across Ages: Treating Young and Old as Equals

Juliana Uhuru Bidadanure
Abstract contained in quotes ==> “Age structures our lives... including families, workplaces, and schools.”.

“年龄构成了我们的生活和社会。它塑造了社会机构、角色和关系,以及我们在其中分配义务和权利的方式。每个生命阶段都有其特有的机会和弱点,这导致了年轻人和老年人之间多维度的不平等。我们应该如何应对这些与年龄有关的不平等?它们和性别或种族不平等一样不公平吗?还是年龄有什么特殊的地方可以减轻道德上的担忧?

《跨越年龄的正义》解决了这些以及相关的问题,提出了一个关于不同年龄群体之间正义的雄心勃勃的理论。这本书是在哲学和公共政策的交汇处写成的,它提出了伦理原则,指导在人生不同阶段的人公平分配诸如工作、医疗保健、收入和政治权力等物品。在当下,年轻人在立法机构的代表明显不足,失业率也不成比例地高,这本书从基本理论转向了今天所需要的具体政策改革。

If we are ever to live in a society where people are treated as equals, the book argues, we must pay vigilant attention to how age membership can alter our social standing. We should regard with suspicion commonplace forms of age-based social hierarchy, such as the political marginalization of teenagers and young adults, the infantilization of young adults and older citizens, and the spatial segregation of elderly persons. This position carries important implications for how we should think about the political and moral value of equality, design our social and political institutions, and conduct ourselves in a range of contexts including families, workplaces, and schools..”

The key idea is inter and intragenerational justice and equality, and age rights. That society is not up to science is probably always going to be true. Bidadanure has written on Universal Basic Income which might also play into the discussion. Hopefully, this can start some conversation.

我可以告诉你;这本书似乎是以年轻一代为中心的。年长的工人——不是被幼稚化,而是契约化的,没有道德或经济上的运气,也需要解放和分配的公正。我有一个亚马逊送货员,他比我大20岁,我也不年轻了。

I'm also interested in the science of human development. Children and the elderly need care and special rights. Juliana, I'm sure, comprehends all this.

Hit the link below for separate abstracts for each chapter from the table of contents.

https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/oso/978019879...

Table of Contents

Introduction
Part One
1. Equality over Time
2. Lifespan Prudence
3. Relational Equality Between Age Groups
4. Treating Young and Old as Equals
Part Two
5. Age, Jobs, and Inequalities
6. Basic Income versus Basic Capital: A Temporal Perspective
7. Youth-ing Politics: A Defence of Youth Quotas in Parliaments

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Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Sunday, October 31, 2021 -- 5:42 AM

Equality, in many respects

平等,在许多方面和许多情况下,是一个经验的通道。我们通过自己的努力获得它。因此,它不依附于特定时间的特定年龄。学者和神童是那些思维和推理能力超过年龄的杰出人士:他们知道,可以直觉和推断,远远超过“正常人”。这些天赋似乎在人类身上不断进化:与50多年前相比,在学校表现优异的孩子似乎更多了。难道这些个体是进化指数方面的指示器吗?我很确定其他人至少在玩弄这样的想法。
无论如何,无论事情如何发展,平等的概念似乎是错位的。给我。这似乎与突发的事实不符。可以说,这些技术还处于起步阶段。

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Sunday, November 14, 2021 -- 10:18 PM

Equality is a social contract

Equality is a social contract we make, and I'm not sure to whom or with whom. I'm pretty sure it is made at birth and paid with your life on your death bed. It surely isn't earned. Equality is a right.

There are cohorts of young people today who are questioning the decisions of our generation (the boomers) while sticking their noses on their phones. There has never been a better time to be just and equal. The soaring price of housing and childcare make past injustice real today. It is about time to consider age inequality.

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Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Thursday, January 6, 2022 -- 5:51 AM

I thought more on the first

I thought more on the first sentence of the What is it? Intro to this post, and my remarks of October 31, 2021. I also re-read Mr. Smith's comments. My distillation boils down to the following: no, all ages are not equal, nor should they be. Unlike other modes of equality, race;color; national origin; sex; disability, equality, as it obtains for age, is earned, not summarily bestowed. Younger people, through observation, opportunity,experience and education, earn equal respect and treatment. If this seems radical or facially unfair to anyone, reading these remarks, I would encourage those kind souls to think carefully on their assessment.

An example:
No one can seek election to the office of President of the United States before reaching thirty-five years of age. If this seems arbitrary or cavalier in some way, it is, nonetheless, a long-standing specification of the job description. Is it excessive, outdated or unfair? Maybe so. But until successfully challenged and overturned, it will hold the force and effect of law. Crybabies need not apply.
还有很多其他的例子。This one seems sufficient.

Are children or the very old to be treated any-which-way-we-want? Of course not. We have laws proscribing such behaviors. Naysayers only learn through experience, education, observation and opportunity.

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Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Monday, February 7, 2022 -- 6:07 PM

The blog post on age and

The blog post on age and ageism is partially addressed here and there. It is complicated. Why? Well, because as we grow older---gain knowledge and experience---our personal sense of worth accrues. There is, however, a tragic downside. Competition. Only the tenacious and determined among the older cohort are able to withstand, to overcome the determination to shut them out.
这是世代传承。就我个人而言,我认识的智力上成功的人,在我这个年龄或更大的人还不到五个人。比那些经济上舒适的人要少,尽管他们有智慧。世代传承就是现在的情况。人会变老,会死去。在此之前的一切都是肉汁。或猪污水。我最崇拜的几个朋友从不回头。这是他们坚持下去的最重要原因。PSDP:上帝对决心和目的微笑。 I have shared that platitude with my fifty-something ex-Navy, PTSD step son. Don't know how that will be work out.

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