John and Ken contextualize Taoism’s major thinkers, Zhuangzi and Laozi, by connecting them to their near contemporary Heraclitus, an ancient Greek philosopher who thought similarly to Zhuangzi and Laozi. The two major works of Taoism contain many parables and aphorisms, but was Taoism created by these two thinkers or was it systematized later on by their followers— similar to how Christianity was created by followers of Christ? Also, which came first: Taoism as a religion or as a philosophy? Or is that distinction too Western and non-applicable to Taoism?

John and Ken are joined by Bryan Van Norden, professor of philosophy at Vassar College and author ofIntroduction to Classical Chinese Philosophy.他们从问什么是“路”或道开始，布莱恩回答道是一个形而上的实体，它构造了先于时间和空间的宇宙。肯问布莱恩，我们应该如何理解《庄子》中最著名的寓言——庄子从梦中醒来，发现自己是一只蝴蝶，但醒来后，不知道自己是梦见自己是一只蝴蝶，还是现在是一只梦见自己是人的蝴蝶。布莱恩回应说，这个寓言更多的是在模糊人类和其他生物之间的区别，而不是我们所知道的笛卡尔式的怀疑。道是一切事物的基础，包括对象和道德判断。

Why does Taoism rely on parables? Bryan argues that Zhuangzi does not want to convince you of a doctrine but that he wants to make you see the world in new ways. Bryan also talks about how Taoism went on to influence East Asian Buddhism and eventually spread throughout East Asia, influencing martial arts as well. Women were also allowed to be important priestesses in Taoist ceremonies, which made Taoism more inclusive than Buddhism and Confucianism at the time. Today, Taoism has not recovered much from being outlawed among other religious systems during the Cultural Revolution, but Confucianism has come back thanks to government support. Taoism is non-moral, apolitical, and about approaching the world ironically, which can be liberating as an ideology for many.

• Roving Philosophical Reporter(Seek to 6:28): Shuka Kalantari visits a Taoist tea ceremony and seeks to get in touch with tea spirits.

• Sixty-Second Philosopher(Seek to 46:20): Ian Shoales looks at the appearance of the Tao in American popular culture and thought.