Reading the Troubled Past

Sunday, March 13, 2022
First Aired:
Sunday, August 11, 2019

What Is It

Nigerian writer Chinua Achebe lambasted Joseph Conrad’s novelHeart of Darknessas a deeply racist work that should be removed from the Western canon. Defenders of Conrad say the novel is simply an expression of its time and not an endorsement of the racist attitudes it represents. So how do we judge the moral legitimacy of older works of literature and philosophy? Should we shun writers for holding racist or sexist views? Or is it important to read—and censure—them? Is it fair to judge authors of the past by today’s politically conscious standards? Josh and Ken have no trouble reading with Julie Napolin from The New School, author ofThe Fact of Resonance: Modernist Acoustics and Narrative Form.

Transcript

Comments(35)


Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Thursday, August 29, 2019 -- 7:57 AM

Once again, and with direct

再一次,用直接的、表达出来的感情说:你不能改变历史,不管你喜不喜欢,我们都能从错误中吸取教训……如果,在什么时候,它们真的是错误。如果作家表达了种族主义和/或性别歧视的观点,这是否就是他们因此持有这些观点的证明?或者他们是社会的晴雨表?哀叹“人类的处境”?

Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Friday, January 7, 2022 -- 9:54 AM

Contextual reality.

Contextual reality is the human touch on history when we are considering history made by human acts. Anything else of a historical nature is beyond our control. Trouble is just one facet of the milieu: we make it or break it. Many eschew history because of things that went wrong, also knowing such outcomes may well happen again. History's role is reporting what happened, be it better or worse. Clearly, controlling our actions can lead to more of the better variety.

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Tuesday, January 11, 2022 -- 7:37 AM

Most all trouble never goes

几乎所有的麻烦都不会消失……它的变化。理解这种变化,也就是当前问题所在,才是挑战。取消文化是有效的,不了解就取消文化是粗心的。阅读总是经过前几代编辑的过滤。

If we were to cancel troubled philosophy, most all philosophy would be canceled starting with Plato. As enticing as that seems, and justified to boot, it would force us to rethink his problems and perhaps relive them.

附近的美甲沙龙里有很多奴隶。你看了吗?麻烦不能避免,只能理解。

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Wednesday, January 12, 2022 -- 5:45 PM

为什么要从柏拉图开始呢?Do the

为什么要从柏拉图开始呢?前苏格拉底学派能通过吗?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Monday, January 17, 2022 -- 5:35 AM

Because the fundamental

Because the fundamental learning is Socratic. Thus the "Pre".

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Wednesday, January 19, 2022 -- 6:50 PM

Can't agree with that. What

Can't agree with that. What we know about Socrates for sure concerns the Socratic method, where through a process of question and answer one discussant is compelled by his own premises to furnish the conclusion for another. Natural science begins in the presocratic period, largely abandoned by most students of Socrates. It's likely therefore that logic as a rigorous discipline begins there, but not the learning of "fundamentals".

Interesting here is how trying to get rid of philosophy results, by your account, in having to do it all over again. Isn't that what happens in every new historical period? It's often been asked why philosophy never seems to really go anywhere, or make any real "progress". I think that's why. If anything it gets a little sharper, but the problems don't really go away; (cf. Ayer, "Language, Truth, and Logic" for an alternate account).

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Saturday, January 29, 2022 -- 3:52 AM

我们不同意的状况。

我们不同意的状况。

Science is Philosophy, and it has gotten quite a bit sharper. Which is not to say we can’t make fundamental philosophical errors in our science (like epidemiology does using the word transmissibility to confuse the phenomenology and ontology of Covid19.)

The best philosophical foundation, so far, is science. Leucippus didn't experimentally determine atomism. He postulated it but never tested it. Recorded natural science doesn't begin until late antiquity, if even then. Galileo is the reported fount, but it stems more profoundly in the history of economics, sociology, and anthropology. That is, likewise, not to say Archimedes didn't test out his ideas. It just didn't stick fundamentally. Some ideas carry forward – displacement of volume, limiting concepts in math, estimations of pi, many others. One fatal step was the logical system of geometry, which set about a groupthink that ideal states could be determined through logic. We now know this is not true. Pre-scientific philosophers made strides, but the process of science and logic didn't generalize, or at least records of it are lost. The same is true of the Pre-Socratics. Maybe they did science. If that is true the method was abandoned. Is there some source for this? I don't think so; there is no dark age intervening as with Homer to swallow the change.

科学的批判基础是苏格拉底的不知道,提出问题,并从考察中确定智慧的前提。这并不意味着科学。今天工程师和科学家所使用的可量化的甚至是逻辑推理出现得要晚得多。可以说没有伦理学和政治学的科学。这些问题主宰着柏拉图。当柏拉图和亚里士多德冒险进入自然科学领域时,他们建立了值得称赞和一致的模型,但他们没有对这些模型进行测试。柏拉图和亚里士多德非但没有帮助建立科学,反而给它一个错误的基础。可惜我们没有采用留基普斯或德谟克利特的著作。

我们知道,历史会过滤那些与我们接触的作家和传统。我们可以从这个过程中单独获得一些哲学知识,也可以从先天获得一些,但总的来说,我们所知道和相信的一切都来自于对未知的假设,这是苏格拉底的立场,与科学是一致的。还有其他观点认为苏格拉底是基督教思想的典范。但苏格拉底不是耶稣,反之亦然。在大多数情况下,我们最好在道德问题上跟随耶稣,但那是另一回事。

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Monday, January 31, 2022 -- 6:45 PM

Indeed science did not go the

Indeed science did not go the way of Plato, the science of forms, but rather Democritus, the science of bodies, or more specifically, very small rocks. I think though it's not accurate to say that Plato didn't test his theories. The time spent in Syracuse trying to make its monarch a philosopher seems to me a genuine experiment designed to test whether or not a city could be governed by philosophical argument. The fact that it didn't work was not a refutation of the theory, but rather a modification of claimed applications. If the notion of philosopher kings was too ambitious, at least he could still try to make kings philosophical

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Tuesday, February 1, 2022 -- 7:24 AM

Aristotle had the same rude

Aristotle had the same rude awakening in Macedonia and was not appreciated in Athens for this reason. Even when an autocratic ruler is sympathetic (like the most recent show pointed out with Marcus Aurelius) I'm not sure if the process could be called science. But I would stick to the claim that the Socratic method is the core scientific method. The difference is one of correlation and causation perhaps. Science is only science when the two are disambiguated. Philosophy may fail that test every time as most all arguments have their caveats.

In that respect, I would amend the statement Philosophy is Science to Philosophy is the precursor to Science.

That's fair?

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Wednesday, February 2, 2022 -- 6:53 PM

Depending on what it applies

Depending on what it applies to. My point was that experiments can be done in philosophy, on the example of Plato's Syracusian adventure. Thought experiments constitute another example. From what I can see, making autocrats more likable by means of philosophy, (which I think is what you might mean in the second and third sentences above), was not in any way part of that point. If your problem with it is a conflation between a cause of the result and the coincidence of effects of different causes, doesn't that just mean that there's more work to do in the respective domain of (potentially) scientific objects? In philosophy these objects are concepts, and philosophical work is characterized by rendering them precise. The Socratic method is adversarial and is taught in law school today. Scientific method by contrast is collaborative and depends on diverse efforts producing different results over time. Therefore, although modern science begins in philosophy, I disagree with the view that once the quantitative sciences branched off from it in curricular contexts, that philosophy thence ceased to be scientific.

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

2022年2月10日,周四——上午7:22

Depending on what it applies

The Socratic method is not adversarial – lawyers are. Science can be collaborative – but it isn’t so often; instead, it is dogmatic. Any technique can be turned on its head, I suppose.

Precision comes from within; accuracy comes from without. The distinction can be lost by precisely what is meant by in and out, identity and consciousness, but the line in the sand is this – philosophy can be as precise as it wants – it isn’t accurate until tested.

Thought experiments are an unfortunate rock upon which to shipwreck this interlocution. It is hasty and inaccurate to term thought experiments as experiments; they don’t test anything. We are the unfortunate benefactor of outstanding models for reality. Models are the product of thought experiments. When Einstein thought about relative motion, we gained an understanding that comes to us as spacetime. There is no force of gravity. Equally competent scientists proposed supersymmetry, but experiments have not shown the standard model to be less accurate. Accuracy is all that matters, for the most part, and thought experiments don’t help with that unless they stand the test of time.

哲学并不存在于宇宙空间中,所以我们永远不会完全同意,除非我们达成协议。哲学就是科学1.0——我们同意这一点。除了一些实验哲学——它给了我们对直觉的洞察(像阿坎人格或电车问题)——我同意它并没有停止以1.0标准为标准的科学(质疑现实)。真正的科学(2.0)只有在我们量化、确定准确性并消除因果关系之前才会开始。没有哲学家会反驳事实——基于模型的预测经验的可重复观察。达赖喇嘛对此没有异议。但是,没有一个模型本身是合理的,它脱离了现实——尽管它展示了理解的力量或思想的美。为什么我们的模特看起来那么好,这是一个谜。我们不应该把这些思想实验当成一个谜。如果我们这样做,我们将失去超越问题最初起源的能力。

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Friday, February 11, 2022 -- 2:15 PM

Have you put that to the test

你测试过吗?我的意思是,为什么不完全理解狭义相对论(你举的例子,第三段)就不能成为理解消除它作为万有引力的必要前提的基础?一种理论的“神秘性”的主张,作为理解它所取代的理论的原因,如何能得到检验呢?说一种理论被理解是因为另一种理论不被理解,这有意义吗?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Thursday, February 17, 2022 -- 10:19 PM

Spacetime has been tested in

Spacetime has been tested in the shadow of eclipses and in the accuracy of the GPS in an LYFT/Uber. The mystery of our model's accuracy is not the cause of our understanding of any previous theory, but it is profoundly mysterious and more so when each more exacting and delicate prediction comes to pass with its refinement. The success of our model pales in comparison to the mysteries yet to be explained (like entanglement, macro-angular momentum or mental consciousness.)

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Saturday, February 19, 2022 -- 6:50 PM

If your claim now is that

如果你现在的主张是,比起使用理论模型已经解释的问题,还有更多的问题需要解释,那么你把之前的一个问题作为前一个模型解释能力的必要条件来谈论(我认为这意味着对当前模型不足以让研究人员达成共识的某个领域的现象的认识,就像你举的量子纠缠的例子一样)呢?认识价值的不平衡比较与对现象的特殊领域的理解的肯定或否定断言有什么关系?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Sunday, February 20, 2022 -- 12:06 PM

There is the mystery of why

There is the mystery of why our models are so good. There is a greater mystery left to be discovered in the unknowns that our current model does not explain. Though physics has excellent models for near-earth behavior the same is not true for other sciences. Even within Physics there are questions that could turn current understanding on its head.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Monday, February 28, 2022 -- 7:04 PM

Are the two categories of

Are the two categories of mysteries related? If one is produced by a question of the manner of "how'd it do that?", and the other is generated by one that asks "why doesn't it do more?", aren't we talking about the same kind of mystery in two different ways? Both cases describe a deficiency in our understanding of the relation the model has with respect to what it purports to explain. If a surplus of the explanatory power of a model is contrasted with the same model's underdetermination by epistemic value with respect to another object or in the context of another research domain, aren't we in both cases talking about the epistemic export-capability of results of the use of theoretical models in inductive contexts?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Wednesday, March 16, 2022 -- 10:02 AM

No, they are not related

No, they are not related necessarily. That is a problem.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Wednesday, March 16, 2022 -- 6:39 PM

A problem that there's no

是他们之间没有必然联系的问题,还是说他们之间不一定有联系但很可能有联系的问题,不管这种联系是什么?我所建议的关系是一种松散的定性认同:知识输出到不同对象领域的挫败感。你是说那些做得太多的模型,比如万有引力,和那些做得很少的模型,比如量子纠缠的超光速因果传递,除了它们在科学史上的时间顺序之外,它们之间没有任何关系吗?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Wednesday, March 16, 2022 -- 7:29 PM

The mysterious effectiveness

我们现实模型的神秘有效性与这些模型的缺点没有关系。

我们理解的程度并不意味着知道我们缺乏理解,而发现更多的时候指向我们模型的更深层次的问题。神秘的是,它们运作得如此之好,尽管它们运作得很好,但没有人保证能完全理解它们。

问题就在你上面的论证中。理解和无知这两者不能混为一谈。没有身份,年代也不相关。没有确定的进展。我们可以很快地逃避真相,我们经常这样做。

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Sunday, March 20, 2022 -- 7:06 PM

--As with ignorance. In

--As with ignorance. In truth, ignorance is a particular kind of understanding, and you describe it rather well in the last sentence. When someone knows something and pretends they don't, they ignore it, and thus are ignor-ant. It seems that you're talking about understanding and uninformedness in the first sentence of the third paragraph, which can't be conflated because they're opposites. But take the concept of instinct, before the discovery of the DNA molecule. It didn't do too bad of a job of putting apparently teleological actions into the general class of non-deliberative behaviors. Today however genetic predetermination and predisposition do the same thing much more efficiently and clearly. By your argument though it should be unknown how the DNA model has such explanatory power and how instinct could explain anything at all. But that's not accurate, as they both are deployed in an identical area of research. Therefore, not only are they closely related, but arguably the later model would have scarcely been possible without first using the earlier one.

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Sunday, March 20, 2022 -- 10:05 PM

By my argument, DNA doesn't

By my argument, DNA doesn't necessarily explain anything. But DNA can explain some things. There is no necessity of explanation that is all. Not knowing does not imply knowing or ever knowing for that matter.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Monday, March 21, 2022 -- 6:07 PM

——显然不是。If it did,

——显然不是。如果是这样,那么就没有什么,或者说很少有东西是未知的了。即使是树木、岩石和溪流也会和世界上所有的科学家一样有知识,因为他们本来什么都不知道,因为他们无法思考。所以,除了证明不思考的东西不可能知道任何事情之外,上面最后一句话还表明了一个潜在的、富有成效的未开发研究领域:无生命物体的认知规范,或者更好的,无思想实体的可能知识。

The first two sentences however concern biology and assert, if I read you correctly, that isolation of the DNA molecule and its current structural determination as helical don't have to explain anything, but possibly might; which seems to me to refer to common and popular reception of the model, but not to biological researchers themselves, where the model is held in general consensus to be of great explanatory power. And that's clearly correct, but by that same token is singularly uninformative. And the third sentence constitutes by my reading a distinct claim about why humans do science at all in the first place. Since we don't need it, it's wanted for non-necessary reasons. This I also agree with, as all the basic needs of human survival could, in principle, be satisfied without anybody systematically investigating useless questions like, "why does the sun rise every morning?" So, in addition to saying that rocks can't do calculus, most people don't care about DNA one way or the other, and no one really needs science, what is your larger meaning? Might one gather therefrom that state subsidy of university research programs in the sciences should be abolished as costly support for useless pastimes?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Monday, March 21, 2022 -- 9:36 PM

Rocks and trees are more

Rocks and trees are more intelligent than you give them credit. What does "calculus" mean in Latin, after all?

DNA并没有很多人希望的那么有启发性。表观遗传学和具身智能呈现了一个更复杂的世界,大脑和环境混合在一起。界面可能是一个麻烦的地方,而且这个麻烦不会消失,即使我们的理解在增长,它也在改变。

I understand the pre-Socratics well enough to reduce forays into that literature, but a study in any field can bear fruit, often in unexpected ways. I wouldn't discourage anyone from studying whatever interests them - including the pre-Socratic philosophers, and I don't place western thought at their doorstep.

Our current model for reality is very good (mysteriously good). Where the models fail, questions arise, the plot thickens. Beauty, however, doesn't imply truth, and one mystery doesn't necessarily explain another.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Wednesday, March 23, 2022 -- 4:12 PM

--How could it? Would it not

--How could it? Would it not then cease being a mystery? But take the example of a situation where someone is correct about something and justified in asserting its correctness, but can't know it because the cause of the judgement of its accuracy is wrong. Let's say there's two people (person x and person y) standing in line at a magazine stand and the first one asks for change of a dollar for bus fare and is given four quarters in exchange which person x deposits in her/his pocket. Person y sees this and thinks nothing more of it, until she/he sees person x again waiting for the bus a few blocks away, and identifies her/him as "the one who has four quarters in her/his pocket". In the meantime however person x bumped into a friend who needed some quarters for the laundry mat, and person x subsequently gave the friend the four quarters and began to go back to the magazine stand for another exchange. But on the way, person x found four quarters serendipitously on the ground, which she/he put in her/his pocket and turned around and proceeded to the original destination, where person y observed her/him as the one who has four quarters in her/his pocket. In this case person y is justified in the correct judgement about person x, but can't know it because it's known for the wrong reason. So if the notion of one mystery explaining another is nonsense, there might nevertheless be meaning in an accidentally true judgement explaining an undetected cause of a model's agreement with its object. Isn't the situation described above somewhat similar to the one where one model seems to overcompensate for what is asserted of it by the volume of its confirmation, and another which is constrained to mere speculation?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Thursday, March 24, 2022 -- 12:23 PM

Are the two categories of

Are the two categories of mysteries related? - No. Good enough.

Gettier cases are odd, I don't know how best to think about them but they exist.

That a stopped clock is right twice a day makes me a fan of military time, Greenwich Mean Time, or synchrony however one defines it. If I look at a stopped clock and it is right - well... that happens. There is some consolation that it doesn't happen often and is repeatable only in a limited way. But Gettier happens.

It is probably best to deal with each case on merit. I don't think I can generalize from Gettier to all cases. But I agree we need to consider these cases.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Thursday, March 31, 2022 -- 7:00 AM

--Consider them with regards

--Consider them with regards to whether or not excess and deficiency of explanatory power of a model's correspondence to its object are related to one another in some discernible way or ways in given cases, I presume. Your first sentence above seems to assert that they're not, but how that's supposed to be "good enough" is, to this participant anyway, itself a mystery. Take your example of reading the correct time on a clock whose hands don't move. The model consists in a correspondence-claim between the measurement-apparatus (the clock) and its object (day-time and night-time = relative positions of earth and sun). Here the judgement of the clock's accuracy is based on the assumption that its hands are moving, and the refutation of that judgement is based on the fact that they're not. As a remedy for that deficiency a sundial could be recommended, which functions without having to assume that it moves. Now, is the same object measured in each case, or does the removal of "night-time" from the latter make them different objects altogether? The answer of course is no. The object is the same, but the sundial is deficient half of the time, whereas the clock is only deficient when the tool of measurement malfunctions. So here there's clearly a relation between kinds of measurement, which could also be called "models", insofar as definite explanatory claims made about a corresponding object, because it's the same object in each case.

But take an example much closer to the point. The surrealist painter Salvador Dali in 1944 painted a picture entitled "Dream caused by the Flight of a Bee around a Pomegranate a Second Before Awakening". The title makes a causal claim: the bee's flight around a piece of fruit, which is based on Freud's theory that images remembered as occurring in dreams are private symbols of repressed memories. Contemporary views, however, contradict such an interpretation and instead attribute such images to prior experiences reproduced in non-rational form on account of a surplus of electro-chemical activity in the brain during sleep. Here there is no relation between the two models, because they're not talking about the same object. Dali's version concerns specific dream-contents, whereas the cognitive science model focuses on a generic cause of all such contents, or rather, in the old terminology, a dream's form.

到目前为止,在上述讨论中提出的关于量子纠缠的例子中的模型缺陷和关于万有引力的模型过剩之间的比较中,有人能说这只是内容的问题吗?前者是无法解释的,后者是形式的明确性。在彻底否定二分法之前,有必要问一下,在这种情况下,是否考虑了两个不同的对象,即在另一个版本中,“很小”和“很大”,或“强力”和“弱力”。难道我们不能断言,这里的共同对象是作为一个整体的“自然”,在原则上,在某一时刻通过合法联系的规律性而统一起来吗?如果不同模型的解释能力的过剩和不足通常彼此之间没有关系,这难道不等于说自然不存在吗?

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Harold G. Neuman's picture

Harold G. Neuman

Saturday, January 29, 2022 -- 5:51 AM

My co-voyagers may disagree

我的同航者们可能在很多方面存在分歧。或者只同意一个观点:我认为可以很有把握地说,我们的后代在我们死后很长一段时间里,将会读到一段痛苦的过去。这方面的记录是一致的。再多的道歉、补偿、善意的表达或“转向”都没有实质性地改变这一进程。是的,伟大的思想可以,经常这样做,想法一致。我们需要担心的是那些傻瓜。最让人难过?没有人生来就是这样的。

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Saturday, January 29, 2022 -- 10:35 AM

There are different cohorts

人类有不同的群体;年轻人和老人,Z世代,婴儿潮一代,爱德华一世人,霍普韦尔人,荷马时代的希腊人,石器时代的人。无论你如何划分它们,似乎我们最近都在围绕科技团结在一起,比如农业、制造业住房、货币、汽车、电脑,现在是智能手机。我怀疑我们会完全合并,但谷歌翻译已经允许一个人在任何地方与几乎任何人交谈。

I'm not sure if we will be fools in the same way we are currently fooling ourselves. I'm not sure if a new dark age is looming or if we are transcending or even going extinct. Newborns are now more likely to survive than at any other time in history. It may create a mass of foolery, but it seems, to me at least, there is much wisdom in the younger generations that gives me hope for less silliness and more insight in the days to come.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Sunday, February 6, 2022 -- 12:45 PM

--If understanding it is not

——如果仅仅了解还不够的话。例如,为什么社会主义仍然在两党基础上受到谴责(某些显著的例外),认为它是对自由和自由社会的无处不在的威胁?这是哲学的问题因为它对历史产生了影响,就像黑格尔认为的那样。黑格尔把历史理解为一个理性的过程,在这个过程中,在历史中表现出来的思想已经被含蓄地理解了。因此,当(战后)国家资本主义条件下控制国家的统治阶级每次受到人民革命的威胁时,总是存在的社会主义恶魔就会被爱国谴责的狗狗们召唤来撕成雕像,这样的事实有什么理性的目的呢?在你上面提到的行政制度下,这是以一种独特的任性和幼稚的方式发生的。更令人惊讶的是,在这个案例中,行政行动是用来保护同样的上层阶级的,而其他所有行政政权都是这样做的,因此表明政策没有真正的变化。这是企图推翻共和民主的代议制程序,以实现这种独特的保护。在这里,我认为人们可以理解为什么私人控制国家是对社会主义发自内心的恐惧。社会主义,来自拉丁语“socius”,意思是“朋友”或“同盟”,在最一般的术语中,是群体优先于个人的原则,这当然不是无视个人,而是支持这样一种情况:只有在集体的必要偏好之后,个人的非必要偏好才能通过集体资产得到合理的满足。 "needs") are satisfied. Any privateer designed upon spiriting away the stores of grain is not going to like it very much, if it means a frustration of that design.

那么,正如上述观点的作者所言,人们可以辩称,“麻烦的过去还在前方”,因为在这种情况下,人们还没有完全理解它。当这一目标实现时,社会主义不仅将不再是可以预见的,被称为当前私人对国家的控制以及各自试图破坏它可能提供给普通民众的任何利益的社会蹂躏和掠夺的替罪羊,而且将被理解为在商业和治理的背景下的一种更理性的集体生活形式。

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Daniel

Wednesday, February 9, 2022 -- 6:39 PM

Last sentence of deleted post

Last sentence of deleted post by participant Neuman above this one: "The troubled past just keeps barreling ahead..."

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Tim Smith

Friday, February 11, 2022 -- 1:18 PM

"The Nigger of the Narcissus"

《那喀索斯的黑鬼》那种在哈罗德的帖子中删除了很多东西。难怪我们有个麻烦的过去。

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Harold G. Neuman

Monday, February 7, 2022 -- 1:42 PM

The notion of political

“政治正确”这个概念从一开始就受到质疑。修正主义的想法,无论在外表上多么诱人,也是可笑的。你不可能两全其美而不显得虚伪。一个谎言不能抹去另一个谎言。不管你多用力擦洗。审查制度是试图纠正历史错误的一种无效手段。
No better way of saying this.

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Daniel

Thursday, February 10, 2022 -- 1:12 PM

Depending on what the

Depending on what the reference of the demonstrative is. If "this" refers to the principle that "two wrongs don't make a right", then state actors are typically incapable of hearing it under conditions of strategic geopolitical advantage, and thus a more efficient means of semiological transmission is required. But if it refers to the language-use revisionism sometimes called "political correctness", then a more appropriate statement would be that many little wrongs could be reduced by several little rights. What I mean is there's nothing wrong with trying to rid common discourse of the linguistic remnants of repressive systems; and even more to the point, of the verbal signals of current oppressive efforts. To modestly revise language-use in that direction seems to me genuinely progressive in character and not disingenuous.

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Harold G. Neuman

Monday, March 7, 2022 -- 1:17 PM

I don't know whether the

I don't know whether the intention of revisionist thinking is nefarious or altruistic. Or just contextual reality, which can be either, depending on a totality of circumstances. Little wrongs and little rights sound like postmodernist jargon to me. But, well, that is a different post, related, as I recall to what we try to grasp as truth. Philosophy wrestles with that. A lot.

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Daniel

Wednesday, March 9, 2022 -- 5:33 PM

Most philosophers it seems to

Most philosophers it seems to me just try to keep truth from getting away. Or maybe they have to be satisfied with what it left behind, as Armstrong describes as "sniffing around at the roots of being". The dichotomy between well-intended (altruistic) and ill-intentioned (nefarious) thinking, however, is to my mind a false one; as there's a third alternative: unintentioned. If efforts to use language in a way which is suitable to a better society is "revisionist", then that could apply to any attempt to modify archaic traditional structures for purposes of improvement of social conditions. Even though there's no reliable way to predict the consequences of these, the attempts are made on the basis of a supposed right of free determination in both individual and collective contexts. Because no one can, in principle, "tell us how to talk", the functional body of reference mechanisms can be improved through use by dropping unintended references left over by unwanted systems.

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