The Changing Face of Antisemitism

Sunday, June 19, 2022

What Is It

反犹主义是一个由来已久的问题,可以追溯到中世纪的欧洲。早期的反犹主义更多地集中在宗教偏见上,而现代时期的反犹主义变得越来越种族化和政治化。那么,关于犹太人和犹太教的旧观念,与当代反犹太主义的比喻和刻板印象之间有什么联系呢?对犹太人的隐形和全球控制的阴谋恐惧与金融资本主义的出现有什么关系?关于如何对抗今天的反犹主义,历史能教给我们什么?Josh and Ray ask historian Francesca Trivellato from the Institute for Advanced Study, editor ofJews in Early Modern Europe(forthcoming), in a program recorded live at the Stanford Humanities Center.

Transcript

Transcript

Ray Briggs
Where did antisemitism come from?

Josh Landy
是种族歧视,宗教偏见还是别的什么?

Ray Briggs
And what can history teach us about what's going on today?

Comments(29)


Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Thursday, April 21, 2022 -- 5:07 AM

I would ask Ms. Trivellato to

I would ask Ms. Trivellato to contrast treatment of Jewish communities with that of the Roma.

I do not understand us/them conflicts like the one in the Ukraine. What disturbs me is that antisemitism often is turned on the poorest and unfortunate and not the rich.

最令人不安的是,尽管邪恶,以色列仍打算将飞马卖给普京的俄罗斯。

有很多选择我都不明白。最近我一直与朋友保持亲密,与敌人保持距离。那些与魔鬼交易的人正在造成严重破坏。反犹主义可能触及了根源。现在拔除杂草已经太迟了。

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Thursday, April 21, 2022 -- 4:15 PM

To: second paragraph, second

致:第二段,第二句:对于针对富人的反犹主义,你认为什么是不令人不安的,也意味着可以接受的?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Friday, April 22, 2022 -- 6:26 PM

Wealth is a blessing and a

财富是福也是祸。The cleansing of the Temple, its destruction, and the loss of everyday blood sacrifice in the Judaic tradition are touchpoints Francesca will likely discuss as historical impacts on modern antisemitism.

许多富人不只是纳税,他们的财富是偶然获得的,他们维护财富的方式是滥用财富所获得的特权,我可能觉得对富人的仇恨并不令人不安。但这不是我在这里所说的,我也不是在暗示在任何情况下都接受反犹主义。

False belief as justification for immoral acts is more anxiety-inducing than actions based on true belief.

Ukrainian soldiers executing a helpless Russian soldier after a battle is less worrisome than Russian soldiers hog tieing non-combatant Ukrainian citizens and executing them. The latter is especially true when these soldiers are supposedly there to liberate these civilians. A similar pretense is alive in antisemitic acts, not excluding those in Ukraine. Thinking about those acts makes this show all the more timely.

Antisemites are steeped in the false belief that Jews are driven by religion, wealth, and subversive influence. The majority of Jewish people are secular (contrary to the ancient trope of antisemitism), not wealthy (contrary to the modern trope stemming from medieval times,) and have their voices threatened daily by antisemitic thought (which is why Israel treads such a tenuous path.) I find these false premises disturbing, as I do misleading implications, and I don't imply or intend the latter here.

I encouraged the juxtaposition of the persecution of the Roma and Jews by a professional historian to highlight and suggest ways to think about antisemitism and the unjust and brutal war in the Ukraine. The latter here is where I spend the plurality of my free thought at the moment. The similarities between Christianity and Judaism regarding antisemitism shed light on the underlying causes of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine regarding their traditions and history.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Sunday, April 24, 2022 -- 11:20 AM

In the second to last

In the second to last paragraph above, you mention Israeli state behavior as treading a tenuous path in relation to traditional forms of anti-semitism going back to the middle ages. I'm interested in the character of this tenuousness. Israel has been engaged after 1967 in a campaign of military and settler-expansion into Palestinian territory which is illegal under international law. Because current Israeli leadership calls itself, with some good reason, a "jewish state", this unacceptably immoral behavior fits easily into customary antisemitic attitudes. So is the post '67 behavior of the Israeli state in your view not only reflected in the current resurgence of antisemitism, but in some sense also a direct cause of it?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Sunday, April 24, 2022 -- 6:34 PM

Israel is not a direct cause

Israel is not a direct cause or even a reflection of antisemitic resurgence. I would listen to others, but that is my take.

Israel has as much relation to antisemitism as the US has to racism or South Africa to apartheid. The association is complicated but not a current driver. (Yes, I don't think racism is a current driver of conflict in the US so much as class. There are still historical issues of race in the US that dominate our sociology.) Antisemitism has existed since ancient times, and some of that hate is still in circulation. Most of the cause and flux of antisemitic thought is derived from Medieval and modern economic movements. Israeli actions (since its inception) have little to do with increased antisemitism. The creation of Israel is a fulcrum for fighting hatred, in my opinion. Having a homeland makes the issues tangible.

以色列建国的历史是复杂的。自建国以来的军事冲突是当前事态的根本。我希望巴勒斯坦人接受最初的提议。我希望库尔德人有自己的国家,而罗姆人可以找到类似的领土边界,以放弃身份认同,迫使人们尊重那些在历史上深受种族仇恨之害的民族。(因为我在这里都是虚拟的——让我补充一点——我对以色列归还西奈半岛感到非常遗憾。在我看来,如果没有埃及人的占领,在这段短暂的时期内,当地贝都因人的发展会更好。我还会为每个人缓解其他地方的空间问题。咆哮结束。)

Recent initiatives in projects like Pegasus and partisanship on behalf of Sunni interests have, in my view (which is likely wrong,) calmed the waters of Jewish hate more than inflamed them. But that has left others, including Jews in Ukraine, at risk. Given the history of antisemitism and the debt they owe their ancestors, Israel's hardliners are too hard not to allow hate to harm current victims of conflict as it did them.

I look forward to Francesca generalizing the learnings from the hatred of Jews to the hatred in general. There is more hate than ten years ago, perhaps, and more, significantly so, in the last five years. The increase I would attribute to the politicizing of traditionally nonpartisan issues like public health, voting rights, free speech (there are others), and outright mass migrations and conflicts.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Monday, April 25, 2022 -- 10:31 AM

Although your analysis above

Although your analysis above is not clear as to semiological intent, three components are identifiable which deserve discussion:

1) You fail to distinguish between the Israeli state and the occupation of Palestinian territories. They are two different things. One functions as an internationally recognized nation-state. The other is illegal according to international law. How this can be ignored needs serious scrutiny.

2) Your second paragraph from the end is almost indecipherable except for a very important point made in its last sentence: How is it that former crimes against a demographic group can serve to justify crimes resembling them by that group against another? As the term "semite" refers to an inhabitant of a geographical area, and does not in its etymology identify any particular ethnic group or genetic lineage, the racism directed towards Arabs by some Israeli Jews can also be correctly described as antisemitic and as such, the ongoing siege against, and periodic military incursions into, the area of Gaza, is a salient display of contemporary antisemitic brutality. You are quite correct to point that out.

3) There are two ambiguities of reference which demand clarification: First sentence, second paragraph from the end: Your term "Jewish hate". Does it refer to something directed against Jews, or something Jews direct against others? And first sentence of last paragraph: Your phrase "hatred of Jews". Is it an objective genitive, as description of a hated object? Or is it a subjective genitive, as describing a hating subject? Because these ambiguities seem to be deliberate, unless you can confirm one pair of interpretations and exclude their opposite, one can safely presume they are meant to be read in both ways according to the reader's predilection.

My original question has not been addressed, only its premise denied. If you continue to keep your reasoning secret with regards to how you can separate contemporary antisemitism from Israeli state behavior in the occupied territories, your readers are likely to conclude that you don't have any.

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Tuesday, April 26, 2022 -- 11:19 AM

To be clear, I indeed deny

To be clear, I indeed deny your premise. Israel is not a direct cause or even a reflection of antisemitic resurgence, and that, despite a typo or two, is my view.

Semiology is not germane and dryly esoteric in a conversation concerning antisemitism.

The term "Semite" has largely lost its meaning in modern usage and had more to do with a commonality of language than geography. However, the two were essentially the same in ancient history. Extending antisemitism to Israeli actions is to obscure the nature of the ethnic hate that drives it and possibly could be considered antisemitic. Let's defer to common usage and the topic at hand. This is not to say that others, like the Roma, the Kurds, and the Palestinians, do not require higher justice.

我更希望现代的巴勒斯坦和以色列同意1947年的分治计划,该计划接近以色列和巴勒斯坦目前的管辖范围,减去以色列的越权行为和数千条可能被拯救的生命。从任何角度看,目前的事态都是不公正的,但不能同造成现状的军事冲突和问题混为一谈。反犹主义可以归因于阿拉伯人反对犹太人移民和定居,但冲突是政治和经济的。阿拉伯人不会在意在中东以外是否建立了犹太人的家园;反犹人士会照顾。

Very recent initiatives by Israel have calmed the waters of the Arab-Israeli conflict while disenfranchising Palestinians. If people disagree about this, the net contribution of current events is no great increase, at least, over the far more militant actions of events since 1947. This may be a matter of perspective on what one considers recent and what events we are discussing. Selling Pegasus technology to Sunni nations and countries outside the Middle East has decreased tensions between Israel and some states while endangering others, some of which have significant Jewish populations and even leadership. These endangered others are where I find hypocrisy.

无论如何,我确实否认你的前提。以色列不是反犹主义死灰复燃的直接原因,甚至也不是反犹主义死灰复燃的反映,就像以色列的建国一样。我会听取别人的意见,但这只是我的看法。

以色列的行动也不能代表控制中东以外的反犹主义,在中东,大多数犹太人是世俗的或传统的。虽然与其他宗教和民族相比,犹太人的经济状况相对较好,但大多数犹太人也并不富裕。对于那些经常成为反犹主义受害者的弱势群体来说,这种差距尤其明显。

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Thursday, May 19, 2022 -- 7:02 AM

When I posted this ==>

When I posted this ==>

“False belief as justification for immoral acts is more anxiety-inducing than actions based on true belief.”

我可能错了。

False belief may be less anxiety-inducing, and accepting tropes may be an easier path to peace of mind. My example of war atrocity (Ukrainian soldiers killing helpless Russian soldiers) vs. war crime (Russian soldiers killing helpless Ukrainians – albeit civilians) may be too harsh.

但我不认为我错了。

相信思想总是有欺骗性的。做到这一点并尊重其他观点是很难的。

在任何情况下,最不焦虑的道路都不是最好的。行动胜于言语。但首先,好的话必须说出来,坏的话要放在一边。

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Harold G. Neuman

Friday, May 13, 2022 -- 8:43 AM

Jealousy is an evil and

Jealousy is an evil and insidious thing. As a young person, my memories of comments/criticisms of Jews always seemed to be perjorative. People of my parent's and grandparent's generations far more often made caustic remarks. Jews were shrewd business people. They would cheat you, any way they could. So, it was a not a far stretch to conclude no Jewish person could be trusted Generational ethnic condemnation. This sort of thing continues now, across a broad range of issues. We call it culture war.
Anyhow, Nietzsche may have said it best---if it was he who said it: whatever does not kill you makes you stronger. A good rule of thumb for any oppressed people.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Tuesday, May 17, 2022 -- 10:11 AM

在讨论新的反

在讨论新的反犹太主义时,将其与最近的两个反犹太主义区分开来似乎很重要。第一种是人为生成的版本,旨在转移对以色列及其与美国的关系负有责任的行动和政策的批评。例如,这种情况发生在以国家生存为理由的国际法例外情况下,因此以犹太民族主义的方式断言,对其的反对因此可以被称为反犹主义,通过这种联系,将对国际法的支持翻译成译者对各自人口的冒犯。

The second anti-Semitism is the one which makes the same arbitrary association but on the other side of it. On the receiving end of respective state conduct, deflecting demands for critique of conduct is not the target, but rather the claim of association as generalized to the offending object as associated with the extra-national population in whose name the state behaves.

如果把上述两种反犹太主义放在一边,剩下的就是目前西方工业化国家的反犹太主义,在我看来,这在很大程度上是2008年11月发生的经济危机的结果。在这种关系中,它不能被准确地视为两个独立群体之间的关系,一个是行动者,另一个是病人。这是正确的,因为在一个特定的社会中,制度形式明显地比相关的文化繁荣以更根本的方式共享;由于这些制度形式属于社会制度,如果不是根据定义,它们是可选择的事项。这里我想说的是,我们可以在两组选择之间的区别中找到更根本的因果决定,而不是在两个或两个以上的文化群体之间。作为一种凌驾于另一种实际效率之上的手段,反犹主义作为一种将经济剥削归咎于不负责任的一方的工具,出现在为参与这种剥削而进行集体道歉的服务中。因此,反犹太主义作为一种传统意义不大。它的遗传功能在于躺在演员的工具箱里,作为一种参与-道歉。(这里避免了“替罪羊”这个词,因为它指的是动物祭祀会混淆这个问题)。更重要的是使用这一工具的条件,这与我们金融体系的主流因素有关。 Perhaps it might be of some assistance, then, to review some elements of the '08 crash and the government's response, commonly referred to in terms of a crisis in the derivatives-market and a "bank-bailout". A derivative is a secondary form of tradable security derived from a primary one. As a condition for a loan, for example, the recipient agrees to buy something from the lender, say a bag of apples, at a later date. The lender needs insurance against default, so at least she or he will sell a bag of apples out to the deal before the lender loses the principle or, extended more generally, files for bankruptcy. The role played by a derivative in this example is as an insurance contract, but where such contracts can be bundled together and traded as a single package, the need for oversite by an impartial party to prevent fraud becomes evident. The crash of the housing market in November illustrated the system's unregulated character by showing how repayment of loans became irrelevant once their contracts had been included in a package of securities which is sold by the firm which wrote them. The top incentive was to lend out as much as possible, knowing that most wouldn't be payed back so that the insurance contracts against loan default can be drawn upon. This had the effect that any asset still liquid was drained out of the economy, so that a multinational version of a run on the banks ensued.

原来的借款人在各方面都被骗得贷不起款。这一事实加上对大型投资银行不受欢迎的资本重组,而不是对它们和整个银行业进行更为理性的国有化,产生了当前形式的反犹主义(具有其他形式所不具有的鲜明特征,例如经常提及所谓的“边境安全”)的条件,不仅被部署为主流经济体系中掠夺性金融要素的典型功能的可插入的辩词,而且作为各自反社会潜力的护理,它已经行使了更明显和极端的元素。在这里,典型的反犹比喻作为一种传承下来的遗产,可以很容易地适用于政府的反应和继续类似的财务行为的准确描述。善意的借款人被骗进了一笔糟糕的交易,因为他/她无法理解合同的条款,所以TARP计划(问题资产救助计划)看起来像是对掠夺者的奖赏和对受难者的漠视。只有在把实际的制度性行为与遗传的恐惧和偏见联系起来时,后者才会发挥任何明显的作用。与此相反,最主要的是它符合这样一种叙述的方式,即这种观点的承载可以被认为是一种个人免于卷入反社会行为的赦免,而反社会行为现在实际上可以被附加到另一个恰当的载体上,有效地理解一个人自己的参与和可选的参与。

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Tuesday, May 17, 2022 -- 4:15 AM

Daniel,

Daniel,

你读过布法罗枪击案凶手最近发布的帖子吗,或者看过那场暴力事件的直播吗?这就是今天的主题。

I follow your points here, as well, and see their root. Speak plainly please so that others can follow. This is a very deep dive, and I would argue feint, at a time when clarity and purpose are needed.

What is your solution if you have one?

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Tuesday, May 17, 2022 -- 9:29 AM

A solution for what?

A solution for what?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Tuesday, May 17, 2022 -- 11:05 AM

不够好。

不够好。

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Tuesday, May 17, 2022 -- 1:51 PM

为了什么?Are you trying to

为了什么?你是想说你不知道你在问什么吗?如果我知道,答案会很快揭晓的。为什么要保密?有几种不同的可能性可以猜测。你可能想知道经济安排的解决办法,这种安排导致反犹太主义作为参与者的心理缓和剂的部署。另一种可能是,你的神秘请求可能包括询问美国对以色列的支持,而当涉及到扩建定居点时,你会装作不知道。另一种可能是关于历史上遗留下来的反犹比喻,当一些位高权重的人想把他们行为的责任转移到别人身上时,这种比喻就很容易得到。你说得一点都不清楚,这让人产生了真正的困惑,不知道你希望从这种模糊而不实质的请求中得到什么回报。对你的问题的对象进行简单的询问,什么才是“足够好”?

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Wednesday, May 18, 2022 -- 10:58 PM

Daniel,

Daniel,

纽约州布法罗发生了什么?如果你不愿意说,那就好。

"Solution" is a weighty term in a discussion of antisemitism. It is consolation enough not to have a solution when the question of racial slaughter that is part and parcel of white nationalism and rooted in 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' doesn't give you pause or consideration.

由于民权运动的成功,早在2008年之前,白人民族主义就已经在太平洋西北地区萌芽。无论白人民族主义者在哪里行动,反犹主义都不会太远。我读过埃里克·沃德的书,听过他的演讲。我觉得他说得通。崇高意义。

向首都进军也不是不合理的。

US policy is not to blame for white nationalism. Israel has its ethnic hate to deal with, and its democracy is strong, well-established, and vibrant to confront the hatred. Hostility toward Ukrainians, Kurds, Romani, and Palestinians is similar but not quite the same as antisemitism. Focus on the actions of western democracies, and financial crises is misplaced.

我想参加现场活动,现在我后悔没有花时间去做。也许弗朗西斯卡会以权威的口吻谈论这些问题,从而改变我的看法。我相信她的话。

Right now, I'm thinking about the mindset of the shooter in Buffalo and that of Russia as they demolish Mariupol. In both cases, antisemitic beliefs are in action.

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Daniel's picture

Daniel

Tuesday, May 17, 2022 -- 8:31 PM

Not a solution, but a civic

这不是一个解决办法,而是公民和社会的责任,以引出明确的地方,用模糊的引用来个别地呼吁其他反犹分子,正如一些人可能会解释上面4/24/22,下午6点34分的帖子第四段第一句使用“犹太人仇恨”的方式。我不记得作者向读者澄清过。

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Tim Smith

Wednesday, May 18, 2022 -- 11:04 PM

Daniel,

Daniel,

如果你认为反犹主义根植于美国的政策和2008年的金融危机,那么澄清是无济于事的。如果我错了,看看你发的其他帖子和作者的澄清。他的名字叫蒂姆……:-)

The hate within or without Israel is not the issue.

We disagree on this, but there are elements we share. Antisemitism is a diversion, and we both agree on that, perhaps. Just on what antisemitism is scapegoating, we again differ. The resurgence, in my view, is rooted in white dispossession and the weighted demographic change that is threatening white majority rule. Pluralism is scarry, and antisemitism is too, but at least it puts the blame on an old enemy and not your jim crow grandparents (and yeah... I had a few of those.)

I do want to listen to this show. So many conflicts inside America and elsewhere are resonant from this discussion.

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Daniel

Friday, May 20, 2022 -- 9:22 AM

The issue of the anti

反犹主义问题与以色列的国家行为有关,包括人为地在内部产生以转移对其的任何批评,以及武断地在外部扩大以包括那些不负责任的人,可以像上面所说的那样,被安全地放在一边,用于话题目的,因为它是由一系列不同的原因决定的,与殖民扩张有关,而不是经济上的不法行为。你提到最近在布法罗发生的事件是反犹太主义的结果(可能还有其他一些事情),而不是反犹太主义的原因。类似的关系是,对宣传品的引用只是修辞工具箱中的工具,在有人拿起并开始使用它之前,它没有决定性的能力。试图用至上主义者宣称的民族主义渴望来混淆这个问题是真正无用的,因为它具有任何决定性的价值,除了这样一个事实:它的狂热和暴力潜力可以在政治竞赛中被一方或另一方所青睐,甚至可能被不受欢迎的政府作为反对民众意愿的防御手段。但说这是当代反犹太主义的一个原因,并没有什么可辩护的。另一种说法是,你提到的“国会山游行”(我猜是指2021年1月6日)“不是一种不合理的推论”,这是令人费解的。如果你想说未遂政变是反犹太主义的原因,只是因为反犹分子参与其中,那么这就像有人说,因为在建筑项目中使用了一把锤子,这就是建筑师起草蓝图的原因一样荒谬。

相反,我认为当代反犹太主义的原因是08年危机导致的历史性衰退,以及国家对经济复苏的管理方式。由于历史对象是复杂的,其原因无法孤立,也无法用实验方法来检验。因此,想象必须帮助知性,因为知性的对象是被想象成相信是真实的或曾经存在过的东西,所以在历史科学的范围内,这种特殊的帮助可以被称为"历史的"想象。它所属于的特殊领域是趋势选择。历史想象不仅是实际发生的事情的原因,而且是确定没有发生但可能发生的事情的原因的工具。只有当我们确定了后者的原因,我们才能确定前者的原因。

The most salient characteristic of response within the economics-intelligentsia to the crash was bafflement, whether genuine or pretended. While many in the economics establishment claimed to not understand how things went wrong, many who "acted in good faith" were adversely effected. The psychology is hard to miss, and is written of by Professor Trivellato as part of the ambiguous relationship which European commerce has with credit (cf. "The Rumor About the Jews", January 8, 2020), so that in both pre-industrial finance and industrial capitalism a destructive demon must be found to account for the negative consequences with rarely detectable causes of a system upon which major sectors of society had become dependent or addicted.

The causes of the current form, understood as a complex object, are, as stated above, three in number. One is availability for use as a demonization-tool, as handed down by cultural history. A second is the openness of its common or frequent reception; and the third is the most fundamental, and underlies the other two: the cause of the conditions which open the arms of reception to the use of its traditional form. As this cause is the '08 crisis and how its problems were solved by those in government, it becomes important to understand what it is.

这一事件始于2008年9月两大金融公司——雷曼兄弟和美国国际集团——的倒闭。他们的问题是其他投资银行也在做的事情:“过度杠杆化”,借的钱实际上是银行在任何时候拥有的。“杠杆”是一个经济学术语,指的是借入的资金与出借人拥有的资金的比例。通过过度出售贷款在房地产市场上发生,它打开了一扇门(在花旗公司和旅行者公司的非法合并,即花旗集团,在第二年合法化后(参见1999年的《格拉汉姆-里奇-比利利法案》),并推翻了新政中的格拉斯-斯蒂格尔法案,该法案规定商业银行的存款不能被投资银行用于投机),让投资银行相互借贷,利用借款人持有的贷款衍生品作为自己违约偿还的保险。其结果是,低级交易的债务功能变得无关紧要,因为它被贷款合同的衍生功能所覆盖。由于后者被打包出售给其他银行,它们对投机者的唯一服务就是无法得到偿还。由于这样的系统是不可持续的(因为流动资产有限),被称为“信用违约掉期”的贷款合约衍生品会失去所有的交换价值,或者变成“垃圾债券”。

重申:目前形式的反犹太主义的主要原因是其受到一种鼓励欺诈和经济诚信是一种责任的经济制度管理的制约。很大程度上是因为投资银行的资本重组(“大到不能倒”的政策,在投资银行破产的税基中构成政府的保险政策),一种无法隐藏的阴险的表象产生了,这导致了教育和大众思维的需要,即如何适应一个人对系统运作方式的厌恶,以自愿参与它。作为一种自我道歉的工具,一个恶魔和另一个恶魔是一样的,而所谓的犹太人协会,包括“谣言”(特里维拉托教授的术语),中世纪犹太人发明了交换信和海上保险,有效地发挥了这一目的。

Any possible solution to the problem must therefore come from an accurate understanding of its fundamental causes. As these latter are argued here to belong to the relatively unregulated and speculative character of our economic system which favors wealth-concentration in the private investment banking sector, the most rational suggestion which is ready to hand is to nationalize the banking sector and open its books to public accountants. To remedy the conditions which furnish the receptacle to its symptoms is the first step in alleviating the source of the problem.

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Tim Smith

Saturday, May 21, 2022 -- 7:23 AM

Daniel,

Daniel,

重申一下你的观点:反犹主义是基于谣言的条件化行为,而反犹主义是由一个助长金融欺诈的政府所鼓励的。这一欺诈行为为受过教育和受欢迎的思想家的反犹主义辩护,传闻中的犹太中世纪金融工具为他们模拟了2008年的房地产泡沫。你对这个政府的回答是接管银行系统来恢复秩序吗?

你们的解决方案反映了白人民族主义者的模式,他们会推翻我们的首都,夺回他们的政府;然而,你看不到这些白人至上主义者的种族主义杀戮和反犹主义者的类似侵略之间的共同点。

这个节目现在正在后期制作,将是一个丰富的学习机会。我们会听吗?这就是问题所在,即使我在回复你们的帖子时,我也至少愿意倾听。

As I said in response to your comparison of deontology and utilitarianism in the discussion of Akan personhood and the contrast between the views of Kwame Gyekye and Kwasi Wiredu (who has since passed) seven months ago…

https://www.speakpipe.com/msg/s/174998/3/jhtrf55mvfbtb2hb

… you are a deontological philosopher who desires to understand the world from first principles. The world does not work like that, and it is messy, confusing, and in the moment simple if, from the historical perspective, complex.

如果有的话,很少有比反犹侵略更伟大的例子。是的,布法罗枪击事件是有关联的,锡克教徒被杀以及在我们边境的家庭与孩子分离也是如此。我并不是说对待罗姆人、巴勒斯坦人或库尔德人的方式要归咎于反犹主义。我是说,人们在观察最近的反犹侵略者时,会发现他们在动机、组织和从属关系上与白人民族主义者相似,以至于最近反犹主义的死灰复燃可以归因于同一场社会运动。

But there is more to antisemitism than this similarity to other racist acts. There is a similarity in tropes and profiling present in attacks on African Americans, Sikhs, and others. There is confusion about whether Jews are a race (more common in Europe) or an ethnicity (more common in the US.) Finally, but not exhaustively, there is particular synchrony between Jewish hate and money, which touches us all.

你认为金融动荡是最近反犹主义的表现,而我认为这是行动者自己的表现。我们可能都是正确的,但你没有去调查那些反犹太主义的人,而是把注意力集中在流行思想家收集的中世纪谣言上,这无疑是错误的。这些坏人在大多数情况下都是白人至上主义者。

反犹主义是少数人的信仰,有时可以推动政府和民众运动。反犹主义的复苏是对自由多元主义的反应,自由多元主义是多数人的观点,尽管另类右翼试图扭曲经济动荡,使之有利于他们。考虑到目前的动荡,我们认真思考这个问题是明智的。

I would not be too quick to take historical arguments as driving contemporary racism. I will try and be skeptical of modern punk rockers who do the same conflating antisemitism and racist killings. Once this show airs, I will do my best to question the learning and adjust my credence.

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Saturday, May 21, 2022 -- 9:52 PM

First a few issues with the

First a few issues with the paraphrase in the first paragraph. Nothing justifies anti-Semitism (cf. second sentence) and no such claim is made. My argument is that it's a tool of self-apology used to psychologically readjust one's self to voluntary participation in a system which is known to be duplicitous or destructive. It's one of the ways in which people can function within a kleptocracy without regarding themselves as thieves. Another drastically inaccurate interpretation is the notion that I'm arguing that the government encourages financial fraud. Ignoring something amounts to encouragement only where one doesn't pretend that it's not there. To the contrary, a deregulated derivatives-market was sold by investment banking as a way to make markets safer by increasing speculation-capability. In May of 1998, for example, the Chairperson of the Futures Trading Commission which oversees the derivatives market, Brooksley Borne, drew up a proposal for its regulation which Larry Summers (Secretary of the Treasury '99-'01) and Alan Greenspan (Chairman of the Federal Reserve) pressured Clinton (U.S. President at the time) to override. Unlike fraud-encouragement, the regulatory agency was overridden to preserve speculative capacity which, when bundled appropriately, would theoretically be to shareholder benefit and subsequent general economic stimulus. In December of 2000, the Commodities Futures Modernization Act was passed by Congress (H.R. 5660) which prohibited any future regulation by the Commission.

Another inaccuracy involves the connection you draw between the story about Jews having invented bills of exchange and the '08 housing bubble. Although to my mind a connection can be made, it's associative, not modular. Where financial success within the context of a state capitalist system is understood as a virtue, the fraudulent malfeasance of the banking sector in its institutional behaviors, by which the bubble was generated, had to be associated with a non-virtuous party, more than with the benefactors of its systemic functioning.

然而,最不准确的解释是,提出银行国有化的建议是为了符合对某一特定金融系统经常使用的“恢复秩序”一词。它的布局是否整齐或凌乱,并不影响投资者不被抢劫的权利和借款人不被欺骗的权利。国有化的一个好处是,通过让银行部门的会计账簿成为公开记录,这些权利将得到保护。由于受到公共会计师的监督,投机在金融体系中的作用可以得到充分监管。与此无关的是,这是由现任政府还是未来政府或前任政府完成的,(假设政府和国家之间的区别,国家是机构形式,政府是由谁在一个时间为其办公室配备人员,并被视为一个群体)。只有它的选择是相关的,因为在这种情况下,国有化的官方选择是推荐的。

The comparison in the second paragraph between designs to overthrow the government and nationalize the banks is not accurate. One doesn't need to take over the state merely in order to deploy its power of the audit. And whatever similarity criminal actions which are based on anti-Semitic or other racist beliefs have with one another is not pertinent to their assessment as effects of shared historical causes, but rather to their otherwise accurate description as topical causes of other effects, as for example inspiring another to commit a similar crime.

我不太清楚你在第六段说的是谁,但听起来有点像普罗提诺斯。尽管如此,你对她或他的批评提出了我们对世界的认识和世界真实存在方式之间的区别。的确,正因为前者在某些情况下不理解后者,前者并没有被否定,而是被确定为规定性的现象学分析,而不是对应的描述性充分性。

The seventh paragraph runs into the same problem as the second. The fact that the actions which constitute a crime wave share similar motivations is quite natural and supports my thesis on account of the fact that explanations which resemble each other are used by the agents of these actions, in the interpretation of the historical conditions which are the more fundamental causes of their behaviors.

The ninth paragraph begins with an incredulous paraphrase whose source I can not detect in review of the monograph. It states as attributed to me a claim that economic crisis is a "sign" of contemporary anti-Semitism. It's not a sign, but a cause. And you're also mistaken that I haven't included anti-Semitic perpetrators in my analysis. They are included as symptoms of a larger phenomenon of sociological degradation whose historical causes are rooted in an implacable disfunction of speculative economic structures. And as these structures are not products of nature but of individual choices, voluntary involvement in their functioning implies some responsibility for any aggregate adverse effects. Its the latent knowledge of this responsibility which sets off the search for a demon by those who in spite of the destructive character of their institutional commitments still want to think of themselves as ethical people. The demon functions to absorb the system's negative effects away from the responsibility of its participants. In terms of the relation of effects to their causes, the attacks against its symbols are the topical effects of its prior creation.

Also, I'd like to make it clear that I reject the use of the term "white nationalism" to refer to a North American phenomenon. The reason for this is that it suggests being paired with black nationalism, which is a mistake. While the latter refers to a movement of liberation, the former refers to one of supremacy.

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Tim Smith

Saturday, May 21, 2022 -- 6:32 PM

Duly noted and understood.

Duly noted and understood. Looking forward to this show. I might offer critique after the show. For now ... good enough.

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Daniel

Wednesday, May 25, 2022 -- 1:21 PM

不是靠我的灯。The use of

不是靠我的灯。“白人民族主义”一词的使用及其所指的概念或概念需要进一步澄清。此外,应该强调的是,虽然不能过分估计近年来白人至上主义的增长和严重程度,但也可以低估其与经济条件的关系,这些条件提供了一些人所称的反犹意识形态核心作为一种组织手段。反犹太主义的种族谴责足以作为解释社会危机的一个因素,这些社会危机的基础很少不是由经济危机或生活资料的物质分配危机所造成的。当流行的机构被摧毁时,无论是可证实的还是虚幻的(如1990年代的“圣诞之战”),在社交背景下的抓魔实践达到了统计上的高度,它的组织能力由此被释放。在这种情况下,独特的是该工具的使用与危机出现的背景之间的关系,危机的使用是对危机的反应。背景是由历史上以奴隶为基础的经济构成的,它与原始殖民地的功能密不可分,并形成了北美工业革命的经济基础,其中最大的一部分是以棉花为基础的。另一方面,这种工具随着欧洲大陆投机金融的出现而发展,因为有“传闻”(参见Trivellato)说犹太人创造了一种更神秘的工具。反黑人种族主义的早期形式恰恰相反,它是为跨大西洋奴隶贸易辩护的辩词,因此有助于维护肇事者的道德自我形象。*

“白人民族主义”这个名字是一个不幸的名字,因为它意味着与其他民族主义运动的比较,这些运动的设计是为了从压迫中解放(如黑人民族主义、拉科塔民族主义、波多黎各独立等)。如果使用,它可以强化这种比较的真实性,从而起到白人至上主义宣传的作用,也就是说,白人种族受到压迫。此外,它没有区分当前由上一任总统协助的极端主义运动和最初的白人新教民族主义在国家成立之初的宪法大会上盛行,或者从此以后都是如此。从这个意义上说,“白人民族主义”并不是指一场运动,而是指一种现状。

In addition to the role played by anti-Semitism in the ideology of white supremacy, then, it also makes sense to mention a way in which the phenomenon of white supremacy can be misapplied in any interpretation which makes it a cause of the instrument employed to generate what some describe as its "theoretical core". For that would discount its own sources in European cultural and economic history. One could almost say that the role played by anti-Semitism in white supremacist ideology is similar to that played by white-supremacist ideology in economic-malfeasance-apology: as an explanatory one for organizational purposes-- for the one as white supremacist in context of nationalist aspiration which uses the instrument, and for the other in institutional financial consolidation in the hands of the wealthiest speculators, generating its current available form.
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* Although anti-Jewishness appears in the ancient Mediterranean, appearing e.g. in Cicero (cf. pro Flacco) and Tacitus, it lacks association with finance; and the slave-economy depended on a regional criterion for inclusion in its labor-force, not a racial one.

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Tim Smith

Thursday, May 26, 2022 -- 7:39 AM

Have you read the Buffalo

Have you read the Buffalo shooter's manifesto?

如果你想知道“白人民族主义”的定义,那就去看看。

白人民族主义和黑人民族主义(或者拉科塔人、波多黎各人、西班牙人……)之间的关系就像盐和胡椒一样密切。即使在同一张桌子上,一个人也不会招呼另一个人。您在这里所做的是错误的和误导的。

民族自豪感不等于民族仇恨。Marcus Garvey found common cause with white nationalists but was pilloried all the same.

The new wave of antisemitism is both new and old (I agree there are lessons from history here.) Financial turmoil does precede social upheaval. If there is an economic role here, it is in the polarization of wealth, not in its failure. We have never been more affluent. I hope to see this vetted in this show but fear it won't be, which is another reason I would wait here to comment further.

I had not read the manifesto of Payton Gendron until last night, but I didn't have to to know that it echoed that of Brenton Tarrant, who live-streamed his attack on the mosque in Christchurch. If you want an example of antisemitism, shine your light there.

I will not comment again until after this show has been posted. Recent events have put a focus on the underlying. I want to amend my thought to the discussion there, as I do not have answers, the discussion could go many different ways, and the need is great.

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Daniel

Thursday, May 26, 2022 -- 3:13 PM

One of the reasons you don't

你没有答案的原因之一是你没有问任何问题,除了几个关于我最近读到的东西的问题。尽管关于弹道犯罪者的一些著述可能具有一定的历史重要性,有助于理解他们的行为动机如何源于普遍可避免的条件,但在那里寻找他们所声称属于的一种运动的定义对于著述者来说过于偏颇,而不能准确地描述整个事件。在这种情况下,我怀疑在那里找到的定义将与我所建议的事实上的白人至上主义宣传相吻合。抽象名词“民族主义”可以有多种谓语。当一个人能够区分两种相同名称的事物时,这就意味着他正在思考它们。你在这里没有这样做。相反,您假定由于两个不同的谓词修改相同的实体,所以它们必须修改相同的内容。但是东西本身和它的名字是有区别的。虽然你对这个主题的兴趣显然是真诚的,并表达了正确判断其领域边界的能力,但为了完整起见,我理应被允许澄清我对“白人民族主义”一词的使用的反对意见,而不必通过那些声称属于它的人的仁慈来寻求它的定义,(参考你上面的第二句话)。我关心的对象不是缺失的定义,而是这个术语与解放运动的自然比较。 When the reference puts it together with other movements as just another minority-predicated nationalist liberation movement, it functions in speech as white-supremacist propaganda. Stating that two things with the same name could be mistaken on that account for the same thing, is not the same as saying that they are the same thing. Apologies for the abstruseness of this difficult distinction.

Another problem with the term is how to distinguish it from the status quo white nationalism which has prevailed in the country since the nation's inception. If it's supposed to refer to a movement of white revolution, they're over two centuries late.

Because your third paragraph from the end, without mentioning the important distinction between anti-Semitism as an instrument of apology and the conditions which make its deployment available to organized groups, is roughly compatible with my analysis, I'll resist further comment; except to take note of the fact that although you've expressed confidence in the expertise of supremacist perpetrators of criminal actions to be of high explanatory value with regards to the movement in whose name they act, it's interesting that you haven't yourself provided an account of what you've learned from them.

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Tim Smith

Saturday, May 28, 2022 -- 7:02 AM

Question: Why do I not openly

Question: Why do I not openly discuss the manifesto of Payton Gendron?

No answer is required, nor should any need be given. It is not easy to find, hard to read, and dangerous.

谢谢你来来回回,丹尼尔。等我弄清楚我们在谈什么我再回来。

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Daniel

Saturday, May 28, 2022 -- 2:04 PM

Anti-Semitism's the subject,

Anti-Semitism's the subject, with emphasis on its current manifestations. Because you've made several knowledge-claims above, one for example of a connection in the writings of two recent criminal assailants with regards to the subject, another about the economic role that would be played in its current rise if granted that it has one, and still another about where to find a sufficient definition of a term used by supremacist movements, the claim that you don't know what you're talking about is not credible. You've drawn a clear line from criminal motives backwards to ideological inspiration. The question about discussion of what you're calling a "manifesto" is not mine. My interest rather is in the nature of this line. To solicit an explication of this nature is therefore not asking for anything further than you've already implied you have. So perhaps it would be advantageous to frame the question as a dichotomy: Is the connection one of an innate tendency to seek variant pretexts for criminal behaviors, so that anti-Semitism serves just as well as any other, or is it one of pre-conditioning by invariant conditions amongst which anti-Semitism constitutes a non-interchangeable component? As a variant of the nature/nurture dichotomy, it may facilitate a more detailed explanation of the grounds of knowledge-claims which haven't yet been fully articulated.

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Tim Smith

Sunday, May 29, 2022 -- 9:49 AM

These are copycat crimes

These are copycat crimes which is why I don't speak to detail here. There are no links to these manifestos except on blogger sites and the dark web.

让我看看节目的进展。你问了一些很好的问题…让我考虑一下,考虑一下节目的反馈再回去。

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Daniel

Sunday, May 29, 2022 -- 4:05 PM

但这是一个新的和广泛的

但这是一个新的广泛的主张。你是说这是不言而喻的,不需要进一步解释了吗?让我们举个例子,有人在面包店偷面包被另一个顾客看到。没有人再去想它,直到看到它的顾客饿了,记住了它,决定做同样的事情,这样他/她就不用付钱了。虽然这构成了通过模仿而习得的行为,但它不符合常用的“模仿者”的参照系。这毋宁是指作恶者所追求的恶名与前作恶者相同。与面包店的小偷不同,“模仿者”希望自己的罪行被认出来。在你上面提供的两个例子中,反犹太主义大概是所期望的承认的一个组成部分,因此在犯罪动机中起着一定的作用。但这似乎表明,罪犯的动机不是出于对受害者的仇恨,而是出于对同伴的爱。虽然缺乏强烈的直觉,但这种分析将表明,作为"模仿"犯罪动机的一个组成部分的反犹太主义只能被不充分地理解为是孤立的个人所为,或者是"独狼",如果你愿意,而是基于个人与相应的同辈群体共同的对受害者的倾向。 Why is this orientation there in the first place, if it weren't produced by an increase in adverse socio-economic conditions whose causes are unexplained while traditional instruments of collective blame which are perennially lying around are resuscitated in the service of filling the explanatory lacuna? Certainly you would not want to deny your readers a sound refutation of the claim that even here, in the two examples of criminal actions which you cite, an economic cause can be found which is prior to and more fundamental than its opportune racist motivational component.

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Tim Smith's picture

Tim Smith

Monday, June 20, 2022 -- 7:49 AM

我听了这个节目。I

我听了这个节目。I genuinely don't know what is best.

几乎无法解释现代反犹主义的种族和民族主义色彩。

引用这些犯罪者的叙述不会改变我对当代反犹主义犯罪起源的看法。孤独、不平等和孤立似乎比经济细节更能引起共鸣,但经济学——尤其是有关不平等的经济学——在一定程度上也有错。

很高兴听到这个话题被讨论,我也没有更好的理解。我不打算在这里发布仇恨和分析它,但这是需要社会科学家而不是历史学家做的工作。仇恨犯罪正在研究中;在回顾耶稣与货币兑换商的角斗之前,我会先听这些作品,中世纪的审判官就是这么做的。

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